Price Wars...how low do you go to compete?

Unbelievable. Completely disgusting.

Have some fun with it.

Hold steady as she goes Helmsman. Don't race anywhere, it is simply not worth it to adjust your fees to increase "possible" work...meh..blue sky.

If you want to have some fun and you've got the time and money; call 'em up and order a $350 Special on one of the ugliest, overgrown, tick infested swamp pit (hopefully an old "cat woman" lives next door) lots and sit out there and watch.

$300-400 is pretty much the going rate for a "mortgage survey" for a small subdivision lot in my area of Florida, as well. Given that I'm solo, my equipment is all paid for, work from home, little overhead, I can make a good living in that price range, doing two or three a day.

Do the math, if I can do two a day on average, it works out to about $180K a year gross. That's a hell of a lot more than I made working for someone else.

I won't even waste my time bidding on "Mortgage Surveys". If the potential client want's a boundary, I quote my fees for a boundary. A 1/2 acre lot in a subdivision is usually $750-$1000, depending on exterior improvements such as pools.

Greetings Pseudo,

So the question remains(?).

So I now begin my own competing advertising campaign knocking off $50 or $75 bucks in order to compete. I've got to keep working to make a living too. I can see this heading but one direction.

How close to the bottom are you willing to go? I don't know how you do it. For me to comply with all requirements of Florida rules I have never been able to turn out the number of maps/surveys per day (solo) that you do; that is, if those maps/surveys are going to have any realistic chance of passing Board review for compliance.

you are using fuzzy math...first off you dont average 2 per day..you have to draw them..you have to bill them and you have to do bookkeeping, marketing, payroll, taxes, etc. this might have you averaging 1 a day...you can do 2 but you will have to hire someone. (figure 30,000 if you hire) do you take a vacation? 2 weeks off per year...so 50 x 5 x400 = 100,000 per year gross. (This does not leave you time to do anything else so you cant make anything more) tax man = 70,000 now lets get to expenses..insurances = 4000...gas = 3000. equip upkeep = 1000...so you are down to 62,000..medical = 5000...57,000 and I havent even bothered to add in supplies or a whole bunch of other expenses..You might make 30,000 after its all said and done...woohoo.

> Do you race to the bottom?

Why would you try to compete based on being the cheapest? No matter how cheap you figure you can do the work, I guarantee someone else is out there who can do it cheaper.

Instead of competing on price, beat these people by providing a product with better value.

Of course, there is a problem with that approach in the situation you describe. Most of the real estate agents, bankers and attorneys don't care for a good quality product. They are classic Class 2 clients. (See this POB article for what that means.)

There are ways to get around the Class 2 buyer problem. Some of the tricks to doing that are in the article linked and subsequent articles in that series.

Larry P

[flash width=560 height=315]//www.youtube.com/v/J2aqvKY6zLc?hl=en_US&version=3[/flash]

I was born one morning in a drizzling rain....

> So I now begin my own competing advertising campaign knocking off $50 or $75 bucks in order to compete.

This is where I completely disagree and get a bit agitated. WHY, WHY, WHY do you think you have to Drop your fee's to compete? The competition should be in Quality! Advertise the Same Rate if that is what they are "Going for" and show, prove, and compete on quality alone. Show that you can be faster at the same rate, or provide the extra details a client may need. Something. Up your game, don't lower your rate.
and PS Im sorry it's obviously a bit rough down there for survey work. Good luck!

:good:

I know a few surveyors around here with their own business that would have been happy to make that much the past few years.

No offense, but anyone using the phrase "race to the bottom" doesn't understand economics.

:good: :good: :good:

Have some fun with it.

Maybe that is where I got it... Once proposed, I will not change a fee unless the scope changes. I also agree with sending all the price shoppers to the low ballers to keep them too busy from doing the work you want to do.

"Race to the bottom"

I believe that was our H.S. battle cry for prom night...

Your whole "fuzzy math" exercise seems to be based on the idea that a motivated and hard working young surveyor can only do one small subdivision lot survey per day. I simply can't imagine how lazy and slow a surveyor would have to be operate at that pace. I don't know a single surveyor (or unlicensed party chief, for that matter) that can't beat that pace. Truthfully, I've done as many as four in one day, and that includes me and my robot doing the field work and drafting them the same day ... all by myself. But granted, that was like an 18 hour work day and very simple and very local lot surveys. Sure, it cuts into my freetime sometimes, but I enjoy making money more than I like watching TV.

Any no, as a solo surveyor, I don't take vacations, I get up early, and sometimes I draft 'til midnight, and I'll work all day Saturday and Sunday if I have to ... I'm making a pretty good living, way more than I ever made working for someone else, despite what your math says.

I'm just curious, what do you think the going rate should be for say, a 50' X 100' lot in a modern platted subdivision with good control (PRMs, PCPs, ect)? Are talking a major difference here, or are talking about $50?

I have endeavored for 42 years to NEVER be the "low bidder." I routinely tell potential clients that I will provide a "proposal" but never a "bid." I also tell them I never want to be the "low bidder", because if I am then I have either forgotten something or I will not be providing the same level of service as others. When they ask me to "sharpen my pencil" (ie. revise my proposed fee downward) I tell them that the pencil just broke and I am retracting my offer to perform the work.

I also sometimes remind them that they get what they pay for.

Without being flippant Ben, sometimes no answer is the best answer.

Don't reply and move on. I've been self employed for about 25 yrs and get crappola like that weekly, if not daily. Ignore it and it goes away. True.

If you decide to bottom feed with your competitors, that is your call. Me, I'd rather go golfing, fishing, or head to Reno. Isn't that why they invented credit cards..... Then you make it up on the back end. More true.

Good luck