OK, I'll start
Nice banner though
Wow. In Arkansas I think you would probably be fined at the least for that. Is it even legal in Colorado?
"An ILC is not a survey. It is merely a surveyor's opinion that the the buildings and major improvements appear to be located on the property described in the deed."
???? Never heard of such a thing. Here in Virginia we are required to set all the corners (or witness corners when a corner can not be set). But...my question is, if you haven't done a survey to determine where corners belong, then how do you even have an opinion on where the building are in relationship to a deed?
Pretty sure this ILC won't fly around here.
They call them different things, but I know from past discussions here that some states (Colorado included) allow this "Improvement Location" semi-survey-like-thingy. I'm not a fan of a "survey" that doesn't find or set corners, but I guess other people like it.
A handful of counties in northern Virginia have different laws. It's in the state code that they are exempt from having to set monuments on improvement location surveys. Still, they have to be actually surveyed. That is to say, enough evidence must be collected to know where you would set the corners if you decided to set them. I don't venture far enough north to work in any of those counties, but I imagine it is not fun to follow a bunch of "paper only" plats.
If what these guys are doing is legal in Colorado, then there isn't much to do about it. But, I am not a fan of it either. Just because things are legal, doesn't make it good practice.
On a side note, I am glad I found this forum. You guys are great source of advice and information. I find it interesting to learn about laws and procedures in other states. I certainly lurk and read way more than I post.
Admittedly, a lot of the PLSS discussions are over my head as I don't work with it. The PS exam only required a general knowledge of it and never got very specific. The GNSS category is the same. I don't use it as we rarely survey more than a 200 acre tract and do to the heavy canopy we can't really justify the cost of the equiptment.
But, I am learning a little at a time from reading threads here. Keep posting guys!
I'm starting to come around to the idea of ILCs, or mortgage inspections, or house locations, or whatever you call them.
Keeps the bottom feeders away from the decent clients, they do less damage that way.
As said before, these inspections, mortgage surveys, etc, are something entirely different and separate from a boundary survey. No one is after trying to fool the public or their clients that they are boundary surveys.
But we still keep having these types of posts and discussions here. I know some surveyors who do really good work who also provide this service, to state standards, and they're not trying to fool anyone. This is what the client wants, and they know that it's not a boundary survey.
You can call them "bottom feeders", but you're just being a survey snob here.
I disagree, what you are creating with mortgage standards is a lot of misinformation about what a survey is or should cost.
I hear all the time, "$1000 to survey my property?!? My realtor/friend said those things only cost $200 or so.." the general public does not understand the difference. My company has gone so far to create and information sheet we deliver with all of our price quotes, explaining the difference between survey types. Mortgage surveys are legal, but I think they hurt the public and our profession.
No it wouldn't be a problem if the client actually kept the survey to themselves and used it for their purposes. The problem is the banks, who hire out for the MLS, give a copy to their clients at closing. The public notices survey at the top of the page and never looks at the statement that Ohio has us put on the face "not a survey, for the banks use only, may not be relied upon by anyone else" or something to that affect. These are done for $150-$200 dollars around here, they can't be up to the standards the state has listed but until someone performs one where the building is over the line and the surveyor says it's on the property, no one is going to complain. The public gets bent out of shape all the time over their fence or drive is over the line but no one ever complains because it isn't worth it. You've just got to go out and explain to an irrate neighbor why his "survey" isn't much more than a pretty picture. I agree they have a purpose and no one is trying to fool the public except the banks who charge $500-$700 and tell you "heres a survey we had performed on your place", when in actuality you didn't need it, didn't want it, the bank needed it for their mortgage insurance that you pay for also but don't benifit from either.
In Maine, we have to put "This is NOT a Boundary Survey", on them.
If the general public and Code Enforcement don't understand that, then their comprehension problem isn't necessarily our profession's problem.
Maybe we need an informational/PR campaign.
When at the top they're labled "MORTGAGE LOCATION SURVEY" in bold 20 something lettering and then some jack wad uses a small maybe 8 sized lettering to put on the statement saying it's not a survey what do you think nine out of ten people will say they have in their hands? It's signed and sealed by a surveyor, shouldn't it be better than someone from the real estate office driving by saying everything looks ok.
It doesn't matter if it is called an inspection or a boundary, the company is advertising as providing SURVEYING SERVICES, which is a violation unless you are licensed. If there is a licensed surveyor on staff, he still must comply with minimum standards and apply ethics and professional conduct to his work. If there isn't a licensed surveyor on staff, the professionals in that area should file a complaint with the Board.
According to the Colorado Department of Regulatory Agencies, there is no record of a licensed surveyor working for Colorado ILC Services.
Sorry, I wasn't commenting on this particular company - just on that tangent that followed, discussing the practice of mortgage inspections.
And that is why I posted it.:pissed:
I just happened to be looking for a surveyor who actually did a real survey and stumbled on that website. They also claim to have "crews" all over the state.
IMVHO
When a licensed surveyor puts his name to a drawing, it is a survey.
> IMVHO
>
> When a licensed surveyor puts his name to a drawing, it is a survey.
Um, yeah, but there are different types of surveys.
You don't necessarily nail down the boundary, if the client wants just a topo, (that's well within the boundary that it isn't needed).
You don't do a topo, if the client wants just a boundary survey.
A MLI is just another service provided by surveyors, and specific standards, and regulated by the Board.
Let's agree to disagree.
Call it Texas pride.
In Texas, if you draw and publish it, you own it.
Our work sketches must bear statement that is is not to be recorded or considered a final survey for us to legally give a copy to a client or other party.
I personally and collectively agree with my BOR that any product a licensed surveyor produces is a full blown survey, even if it is on a napkin.
Anything less is not professional and creates a venue that would allow anybody with a straight edge to produce and compete with licensed surveyors.
That produces an area into the likes that all the degrees, licenses and years of college are not worth the effort to become a licensed surveyor when a little sketch by anyone will fulfill the same need.
The bank or loan agency does not make the rules and cannot dictate what is acceptable when a licensed surveyor steps up to the plate.
Be a surveyor and not just a draftsman.
Call my office and order a drawing and call it something less than a survey or official proposed plan and I will laugh at you.
0.02
I think that Vern's main point when he posted, was that the company doesn't list a professional surveyor on it's web site. If you check with the Department of Regulatory Agencies, they don't show a licensed surveyor at that company. The bottom line is, there appears to be numerous party chiefs and I-men advertising SURVEYING SERVICES without a licensed surveyor in responsible charge. It needs to be investigated further before one can make a snap decision and condemn the company.
As far as the "Improvement Location Certificate" is concerned, I tend to agree with Mr. Harris. If you are qualified to form a PROFESSIONAL OPINION of encroachments onto or from the subject property, it is your duty as a PROFESSIONAL to provide your signed/sealed survey. In my opinion, it is unethical to provide an opinion regarding property lines & rights without surveying the property. IMHO, if there is an actual need for this service, it falls under surveying services, and must have the same governing standards as a boundary or topographic survey. I personally don't see how this service is anything except a perpetuation of fraud.
Now that I have vented, might I suggest that a Colorado surveyor take it upon themselves to either make a few phone calls to find out if this group is illegally practicing land surveying or ask the DORA to investigate.
Have a safe weekend & keep it between the ditches.