Employee working on the side.

I did it out of necessity.

At one point I surveyed on the side, delivered newspapers in the mornings and flew with student pilots as an instructor in addition to my regular F/T job. The newspaper route went first then after five years of flying the surveying was picking up, it paid a lot more and I got licensed so I let the CFI go.

In the crash of 2008 all the side business dried up and, frankly, I don't miss it. It's nice having weekends off. The money was nice but I can get by without it.

If you can live comfortably on your current income then my advice is don't take on side work. Side work just takes over your life. Maybe if you envision going on your own it would be worth it, otherwise I would avoid it.

I started my business in 2007. I had been collecting small equipment for several years. I started my business, because I believed I could earn a decent living from the work that my employer at the time was turning away. I had always wanted to be a business owner.

I have been very, very blessed, and made it through the recession. I have had a few employees, but I enjoy the solo aspect more. It is stressful to have employees depend on you. It is even tougher, at times, to have to do everything, and I mean everything, by yourself. I team up with another solo surveyor on jobs that are too big to take on by myself.

I would not take on any work while employed by your current boss. It can open him up to liability. I know I would not allow one of my employees to do it. I have done a handful of side jobs while working for others, but they were low/no liability jobs that my employer would not have done, and I had permission. It was mostly for family or close friends.

If you want to go out on your own, I would do like I did. I developed a business plan, secured financing, and then once I had everything lined up, I put in my notice, and worked my rear end off.

Good luck, it is not for the faint of heart. I have been blessed. I have worked on a wide variety of projects that I never would have had the opportunity to work on of I had stayed with my former employer. I never burned any bridges, and would like to think I am still on good terms with them.

food for thought, pro..

> I am not entirely certain that I want to be in charge of a handful of other people's livelyhood.

First off, as a proprietor thinking you're in charge of someone's livelihood is kind of a jaded angle on the whole thing. They are present and paid to help YOU with your livelihood.

If I were in the boat you're in, I might think of talking with the old bird first and see what he might have in mind. If he's really that shrewd a businessman he may have an organization set up that would be worth taking the helm.

As for piddling on the side, in your case I'd suggest not. Ride it out a year or two more. You and he will both be in a different place in a relatively short period of time.

Doing something on the side in an occupation that is in a different line is one thing. Becoming a competitor to your regular employer is another. No way does that work out.

Go for it, but do it right. Create an entity other than yourself as the side business and get your own insurance (general liability, workers compensation, and errors and omissions coverage).

How would your employer react to you doing this? Are you planning on disclosing it to him? That's the best way to do it. If you can't tell him about it then be 100% prepared to get fired if he finds out. He might not fire you, but he absolutely has every right to if he catches you doing it secretly.

I work for a construction contractor as an employee, but I disclosed to him before I came on board that I would be doing professional surveying and engineering consulting work at night and on weekends. In my case, they don't have much of a reason to care about my consulting practice. That being said, I have not and will not accept any construction stakeout work on the side. I would not want to get caught doing layout for one of my boss' competitors. Although, construction layout is not usually something that can wait for the weekend so it doesn't really fit into my current business model anyway.

I say it would be tough to do it on the side , no matter what you do you would not be giving your employer 100% . You would be trying to find time to finish projects etc . If you can do side work you can work for your self quit and do the right thing . just got to take the first step thats what I did 17 years ago this month , cold turkey . Scarred to death but it worked out , great client base and employees . My problem I am not into it anymore since I was forced inside , I despise the desk routine and miss the outdoors . I did it for 28 years in the field .

"...secured financing..."

This is by far the most critical aspect of the whole process.

You're going to do more harm than good by doing this. He will find out, and if you haven't spoken to him ahead of time and have some arrangement, then you may find yourself unemployed.

Talk to your boss before you do anything. You may find that he's okay with you doing the "turn-away" work on the weekends. Offer to rent his gear from him. That way he gets a bite at the apple.

This won't work long, I promise. Serving two masters is never a good idea.

That is a very valid point about giving 100%, and it requires a lot of discipline not to answer the phone or emails during the day, but it can be done. You have to realize when to turn away jobs that would be too rushed or too time consuming.

Also, I've never "borrowed" a stitch of ribbon, one PK, one tack, one piece of lath, etc. I'm somewhat obsessed with keeping everything totally honest and separate. It's a very fine tight-rope to walk and can be quite treacherous.

I would have a talk with the boss and tell him your situation. See if you can come up with some proof that you are underpaid and show him. Tell him what you told us, and that if you could make more money with him or get some extra work on the side it would help you out. Does he know that everyone else that does what you do gets more money than you? If so, maybe you should actively seek other employment, and if not, maybe he would pay you what you are worth so he can retain you. From what I've seen most employers who are skinflints and underpay their help are always going through help and no one ever gets trained well enough to actually start getting work done right.

I did it, in another state, where my employer didn't do work. I didn't compete against my employer, didn't use his equipment, software, or anything else. I gave my employer 100% effort while I was on his time, and my side business 100% while on my own time.

It all worked fine until 2008, and then the work disappeared. I get calls now and then, but don't feel the urge to do side work. I get paid more now and have more say in the business, (different company), and like my weekends off.

You may want to look into the insurance policy for your present company. Some prohibit employees from working on the side (when the work performed on the side is the same or similar to your full time work).

Andy

:good:

Some employers do not pay their help enough to live on because their business model does not include anyone except themselves.

When an employee is making the company money, there is reason to be paid enough to stay and grow with the company.

On the other side, if you are not making the company money that you are working at now, it will be much harder to make it on your own. That involves having a client base and probably putting in more hours than you are now.

Before starting my own business I was happy with where I worked and went to the owners and had a talk about why I wasn't able to make more money considering everything I was doing for the company. Bottom line was that they had other income and jobs and that their survey company model was to pay for their children's lively hood while they studied and built houses and cars and there was not more room for any increased wages. Did not stay around for that.

Talk with your employer and find out why he was not paying more and if he is really interested in you taking over, is it for what he thinks he can sell the company for or if he just wants to continue to reap the benefits from your work at your expense.

Agreed. That's how I originally got into teaching. It avoids conflict of interest.

Being registered puts a whole new light on this. Line up what would be "side work" and run it through the company. That way you can go to your Boss and tell him that you have gotten more work for the company and that you will handle it. If that doesn't put a smile on his face and all but guarantee you that company later, you are working for the wrong guy.
The hard charging, eager beavers are much beloved by us old pharts!!

Be transparent.
Have a sit down with him and be open about the situation.
Explain your career goals and state your position. If you are seeking extra work that is out of his work area or projects that he passes on then may be beneficial to both of you.
Try to work joint ventures if possible.
Whatever you do, you need to communicate with him.
You say that you have a good working relationship with him so why jeopardize it. Try to further improve it.
Good luck!

Washington isn't as explicit as the other States I am licensed in. However:
"Registrants shall avoid conflicts of interest, or the appearance of a conflict of interest, with their employers or clients. Registrants must promptly inform their employers or clients of any business association, interest, or circumstances that could influence their judgment or the quality of their services or would give the appearance that an existing business association, interest, or circumstances could result in influencing their judgment or the quality of their services."
I wouldn't consider outside Surveying related work without a written agreement with your boss. It could land you in hot water.
I have a side business that compliments the work our company does. Each has the option to feed the other and there is no competition. The side work doesn't involve any actual Surveying. You may want to consider exploring something similar. If your boss invested to get you where you are you should tread lightly in areas that he could perceive as threatening or ungrateful...
Good Luck, Tom
Oh yeah.. Have a plan B before you approach him.

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