Where are the surveyors?

Ruel and his wife Gwen (also a PLS) are great people to work for. I worked at this company for several years and only moved on after being offered a job as first mate on a 68' ketch in the Caribbean.

Sorry to hear you guys are having trouble finding a qualified workforce, but glad to hear you're busy! Good luck, and I'll let people know you're looking for help.

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I am under the impression that a number of the good folks finally called it quits in the last "economic downturn" (as the MSM is so fond of calling it) and moved on to something else permanently. Now that the economy has come back to the prior robust level, there are fewer of us to do the work. Not a good sign for the Engineers who need something from us "right away", but bodes well for the Surveyors who can raise rates and command higher salaries.

You are not alone in your current situation. I am in the Denver Colorado area (where commercial and housing development is once again booming) and am getting calls from headhunters once or twice a month, calling on behalf of large firms looking for Survey Managers, Survey Office Techs, field Party Chiefs and Instrument Operators. Seems the Engineering Departments are fully staffed but they have no Survey staff and cannot find good people to fill those slots.

Things are very slow for PLS's in several parts of MT (including here); However I moved away from the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia:whistle: in the late 70's and have no desire to go back:-D

I needed someone awhile back, I went to indeed.com and searched the resumes. Found a local person with just the skills I needed. He did not even remember how long it had been since he had posted that resume there. A lot of people may not necessarily be out of work and "Looking" , but may have posted their resume up in the past and be willing to listen to what you have to offer. And its free.

7 or 8 years ago we got unsolicited resumes on a regular basis. I also remember the 'auctioneer days' before that when guys would have 8 jobs in 5 years bumping pay little by little along the way. The ups and downs since Carter was in office have made life interesting. The last downturn was different. It shook people to the core and changed nearly every business model out there. The slow slide to 'efficiency' over quality and the propagation of our Profession became an avalanche.
There are gems out there to be sure. We get one through every few years. Hopefully the fear will wear off and the talent will return. In the meantime if you have good talent, treat them well...

Same problem in StL. There is no one out there. I think some of the problem is due to what others have said but I also think it has to do with the fact that those of us that stuck around are now licensed and we all managed to get through the recession by running one man crews. The down side to that is we were not training anyone - no mentoring.

In my area (north-central Florida), unless you are working your way up the ladder toward being a licensed professional surveyor, I would not recommend being a survey technician as a long term career choice. Most of the time the pay and benefits are not that great and when they are they only last until the next bust in the cycle. If you are trying to get ahead in life, low pay and little job security are not a good combination.

Hard to give good pay to respectable employees when you have bottom feeders charging $50 for an elevation certificate and $250 for a lot survey. You get rid of those guys, you might drive up the price. Hopefully if what they told us in college is true that there aren't enough new surveyors replacing the old ones, then the demand should increase due to low supply, which should drive up prices, wages etc. It all comes from the bottom line though folks, gotta generate income as a company 1st before you can generate income for the employees. Can't borrow money to pay wages and last long...been there...done that...

Bow Tie Surveyor, post: 324055, member: 6939 wrote: In my area (north-central Florida), unless you are working your way up the ladder toward being a licensed professional surveyor, I would not recommend being a survey technician as a long term career choice. Most of the time the pay and benefits are not that great and when they are they only last until the next bust in the cycle. If you are trying to get ahead in life, low pay and little job security are not a good combination.

Sorry to continually hear things are that way in Florida but I am very undeterred in recommending the surveying profession as a long standing viable career. The nature of this post is sort of a prime example that there is Demand in the profession. When the average age of the work force across the country is nearing retirement in the next decade there is and will be a continued demand for jobs to fill as time moves on.

I agree. I think 1 of things we are seeing now, is maybe the old saying "The night is always darkest before dawn" type things. I hope this is true. What I'm VERY afraid of is what appears to be the lack of numbers getting into the profession as licensed surveyors. I've not talked to anyone at colleges, but I have some colleagues who have that say that not only the number of graduates are down, but the number of graduates that actually go on to get licensed is down. Would one think that the supply could get so low and the demand so high that certain industries/professions that rely on our profession could regulate us out of the profession? Or, would you see a deregulation of the requirements it takes to be a surveyor? I think this would be a move backwards for the profession. Just kinda thinking out loud here...

Ruel del Castillo, post: 322738, member: 137 wrote: I've been looking for a Survey Manager, Project Surveyors, and Survey Technicians for a while now. I place ads and, if I'm lucky, I might get one response. It's getting rather frustrating, mostly because we keep getting more and more work to do with the same office personnel.

If anyone is interested in working in Tustin, CA, email me your resume at [email protected].

Good pay, interesting work.

"Good pay"

I am always fascintated by the idea of "good pay". The employee is the only one that gets to determine if the pay is good enough.
This lament is heard in many places in this country, and I believe that it is a symptom of deep issues.

I will make an assumption that "Good pay" is because it is generous in regards to the profitability expected of the professional. There is a certain ROI necessary for every investment. We have apparently hit the point where the ROI is less than the cost for many professionals.

I am curious what happens next. Do rates rise? Do we get fed up with the poor quality of the bottom feeders and clean up our act?

The reason that a position cannot be filled in any case is because the combined compensation is not great enough to induce someone to apply for employment. That is the only reason.

But, if our current model does not allow for a sufficient ROI, for whatever reason, in relation to the compensation needed, our industry will change.

Oh, and I have no idea how you could hire anyone to work for you in CA.

When I looked at the pay scale CalTrans is hiring surveyors at (over six figures in many positions), and they have pension and government stability, I cannot imagine what you have to pay in the private sector,

Whereas I am struggling to find a new position since my position here in Afghanistan is being eliminated in July. I applied for one survey project manager position and almost 50% of the applicants have a Master's. I used to think my MS put me ahead of one of the curves but I guess not. I think one company is concerned I am too much of a go-getter and would upset the apple cart - "we like the way we do things here". Another interviewer told me my technical knowledge in GIS was not deep enough - they wanted a project lead that was a "jack-of-all-trades" and a technical expert...huh?! I have applied for stuff anywhere from Texas to California, Arizona to Wyoming and so far...nada. I also think my being 9000 miles away is a serious detriment! My home and family are in Colorado but Iexpect to take a job with a company away from home and then expect to be able to move up and around with that company. Hey, you need a project manager in another state on zero notice - no problem!
I consistently get told the same thing - very impressive resume and not what we are looking for:-( I am just too far "out-of-the-box" for most people.
I did turn down $125k in Abu Dhabi; but that included the housing allowance and a cheap apartment would cost me about $30k/year and we haven't talked about other living expenses.
So if anyone knows of something that can provide intellectual challenge with room to grow for someone with high energy, email me. Routine jobs need not contact me:-) So Ruel, I too am getting frustrated.

I would LOVE to see talent like yours in this valley. Lots of people looking but I doubt they could afford you.
From what I've read and heard, you could run your own shop pretty well. The economy has turned in many places and now is the time. Have you considered that?
Best of luck, Tom

Tom,
Thank you for the kind words. I am not self-disciplined enough to work for myself. I work VERY hard for others and need creative space, but get lazy without that external motivation and structure. Also, where I call home is something of a backwater, not much challenge there. That's why I am willing to apply myself elsewhere and go home as my retreat. People get really insecure with that concept from a new hire, but I see it as just a 2nd home I go to for rest. One company told me that a negative was that I was not going to establish roots in the city as if they thought I should grow old and die there - both the technical expert and the office manager were still living within 100 miles of where they grew up and went to the university... they did me a favor by saying no ...lol.
I am extremely committed and loyal to whatever task or responsibility I take on - again, I think I am just too far out of the norm for some people. Boise is a beautiful area and a growing tech center, would definitely consider it.

Helper, what is that. Been looking for a real helper for decades.
Most every one I've hired used me to guide them thru life because they would not do very much of anything outside of my eyesight.
good luck

Boise has some phenomenal attributes. Respect for Professional talent can be hit and miss. While we are in solid competition for misogynistic capital of the United States, your experience should offset that well. We have a few larger outfits that would be worth talking with. Email my profile if you want a few suggestions.
Good luck, Tom