This from the latest AS, is it really that bad out there? Interesting reading- http://www.amerisurv.com/content/view/15485/153/
You need to get out more! 😉 just kidding.
IMHO, a lot of this has to do with poor mentorship.
I'm not a fan of the author.
Sad, but true. When was the last time you hand calculated the area of a tract? Why can't anyone anymore produce a plat showing a truly rectangular tract? Oh, it'll be close, but it will disagree by a few seconds of bearing and a hundredth or two somewhere simply because that is where the magic button said you were when the button was pushed.
Holy Cow, post: 396931, member: 50 wrote: Sad, but true. When was the last time you hand calculated the area of a tract? Why can't anyone anymore produce a plat showing a truly rectangular tract? Oh, it'll be close, but it will disagree by a few seconds of bearing and a hundredth or two somewhere simply because that is where the magic button said you were when the button was pushed.
We don't have rectangles down here.
Holy Cow, post: 396931, member: 50 wrote: Sad, but true.
I wonder if younger surveyors have even heard of latidude and departure? (or God forbid a trig table!)
[USER=703]@Tommy Young[/USER]
It has become more apparent every year that only very, very few surveyors are capable of creating one of any size, under any conditions.
I spend far more time resolving boundary conflicts created by poor work of surveyors of the distant past than those with today's technology. Surveyors with steel tapes and chains and without calculators took a lot of shortcuts and many did not document their evidence well. There were some great surveyors of the past, but there were msny not so good too. Its not all that different today other than it is easier and more accurate to get measurements and to perform calculations. I know a bunch of young surveyors who are diligent and knowledgable about boundary evidence. I know a bunch of old timers and long deceased surveyors who created more problems than they resolved.
Tommy Young, post: 396934, member: 703 wrote: We don't have rectangles down here.
We still have quite a few in the Subdivisions we work in. For example:
FL/GA PLS., post: 396947, member: 379 wrote: We still have quite a few in the Subdivisions we work in.
When you suddenly realize that the PLSS is just one huge subdivision, it makes a little more sense. I think that a lot of principles are common for both. The breakdown of a section is simply following common proportionment rules etc. (Yeah...there are some "special" rules that don't make a lot of sense these days such as using double-proportion for replacing lost section corners...but generally speaking they are the same)
I think the article is making the same cry and whine that has been going on since I have been surveying. I think I can remember a similar article from 25 or so years ago about surveyors relying too much on the edm's and side-shooting in corners. Not to mention the addition of calculators and (shudder) the programmable calculator. I believer there have been slackers and have been good, intelligent surveyors in all eras.
I often wonder if some authors and speech-writers take some kind of poetic license in making up their experiences. I have trouble believing some licensed surveyor testified in a court that he calculated a width by pushing a button in AutoCAD. Any more than I believe that some politician just finished some discussion with a person who was helped (or hurt) by the latest health-care program, or some other recently-enacted program.
Of course I agree with all of these types of articles, in that, there are a lot of slackers out there, and that they are your competition in getting jobs.
Tom Adams, post: 396950, member: 7285 wrote: I often wonder if some authors and speech-writers take some kind of poetic license in making up their experiences.
I often wonder if surveyors who spend a lot of time as experts in court cases and reviewing court decisions suffer from a selection bias. If your specialty is working as an expert witness in court cases, then you spend a lot more time with the bottom 5% of land surveyors than with the average practitioner.
Kind of like a cop or DA arguing that society is going down the tubes; when you spend all day with the dregs of society it's easier to come to that conclusion.
Paul Landau, post: 396910, member: 2526 wrote: This from the latest AS, is it really that bad out there? Interesting reading- http://www.amerisurv.com/content/view/15485/153/
This is not in the least bit interesting. In fact it is purely disgraceful to have another professional land surveyor pointing out that surveyors are button-pushing morons. I thought it was against our code of ethics to malign others in our profession.
Apparently surveyors are so masochistic that they love to hear stories like this. When we make statements that declare the entire profession to be button-pushing morons we save ourselves from charges of libel because we are not making a case against any individual.
We all push buttons. I am pushing buttons right now in order to type this. I get that if I just push any buttons at random my words would be coming out as gibberish. What I donÛªt understand is why surveyors seem to be fascinated with declarations such as those made is this short article.
I have a formal education and that is why I can think for myself. Further, I never follow advice of those so gloomy. The list of abominable advice I have received in my life is too long.
not my real name, post: 396955, member: 8199 wrote: ....... In fact it is purely disgraceful to have another professional land surveyor pointing out that surveyors are button-pushing morons. I thought it was against our code of ethics to malign others in our profession.......
Like I said, I'm not a fan of the author. Mostly just yellow journalism doing more harm than good.
not my real name, post: 396955, member: 8199 wrote: This is not in the least bit interesting. In fact it is purely disgraceful to have another professional land surveyor pointing out that surveyors are button-pushing morons. I thought it was against our code of ethics to malign others in our profession..
I thought so too. But I think Mike spends a lot of time blowing hot air over a room full of folks in the legal profession. I'm sure he's not a dummy but it seems he might be 'calling names' in our profession merely for the sake of selling tickets to his seminars or magazine articles.
meh...
Maybe all the good surveyors are now doing GIS.
"I don't know. I pushed a button and the program gave me the answer." - He lost me at this. Was it an actual surveyor, or a dirtwork guy? No one with any formal training or professionalism at all, would "push a button in Autocad". Besides, which button do you push? I think the author has had no training in CA D either.
Business is better when the sky is falling.
That emperor, though, puttin' on the finest professional appearance...
Calling ourselves our own worst enemy is like industry-wide self-sabotage.
We ought be talking about what we do well, and how that could appeal to common people's own lives & self-interest.
Paul Landau, post: 396910, member: 2526 wrote: This from the latest AS, is it really that bad out there? Interesting reading- http://www.amerisurv.com/content/view/15485/153/
The person saying "I pushed a button" on the witness stand committed perjury by calling himself a surveyor. There's no way a surveyor does not understand practical coordinate geometry.
not my real name, post: 396955, member: 8199 wrote: This is not in the least bit interesting. In fact it is purely disgraceful to have another professional land surveyor pointing out that surveyors are button-pushing morons. I thought it was against our code of ethics to malign others in our profession.
Apparently surveyors are so masochistic that they love to hear stories like this. When we make statements that declare the entire profession to be button-pushing morons we save ourselves from charges of libel because we are not making a case against any individual.
We all push buttons. I am pushing buttons right now in order to type this. I get that if I just push any buttons at random my words would be coming out as gibberish. What I donÛªt understand is why surveyors seem to be fascinated with declarations such as those made is this short article.
I have a formal education and that is why I can think for myself. Further, I never follow advice of those so gloomy. The list of abominable advice I have received in my life is too long.
The fact of the matter is there are surveyors out there that are button pushing morons. I personally know surveyors that will hold the deed distances, even if it crosses over a called for monument on a senior line, saying "we've got to go by the deed." I personally know surveyors that measure distances with stadia. I personally know a surveyor that laid out a site and did not use the benchmark called for on the plans, but instead used the elevation his GPS data collector spit out. I personally know surveyors that pin cushion their own corners. I personally know a surveyor that rejected a called for monument in a deed in order to strike a line that was shown on the tax map. I know a surveyor (who is now a good surveyor and a friend of mine) who early in his career found all the corners of an acre lot on a rural tar and chip road. He wanted to know what he was supposed to do because the corners were all 0.7' too close to the center of the road.
Also, nowhere in that article did I see where the author was denigrating every surveyor. There was no blanket statement applied to the profession.
