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Wood Hubs as control points

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Norman_Oklahoma
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For the last couple of years my work has revolved around a big water transmission pipeline project. Many miles of pipe, many tens of millions of dollars spent in planning, design, & construction. Mostly federal money, so it's your money, too. Years long timeline. The topo work it is based on is documented in the plan set. So that is nice. Mostly wood hubs and MAG nails. Very little more substantial than that. Around here a wood hub in the ground may rot away to nothing in just a couple years.  I've always said that about 1/2 of all MAG nails set will disappear within a year or so. 

Please. For the love of god, if you are working on a project with a time line measured in years rather than days or weeks, set some controls that are more substantial. 


 
Posted : February 4, 2026 10:05 am
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Andy Bruner
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We used 60d nails for control points on sanitary sewer route surveys.  In general, if undisturbed, they would last for many years in out acidic soil here in north Georgia.  One thing I did learn the hard way though.  We didn't carry range poles so we would cut small trunks to use for marking line while cutting.  Whatever you do, DO NOT use Privet, at least around here.  We would cut it, strip the limbs, stick it in the ground and flag it up for line.  That dang stuff is immortal.  When we came back a few years later the dang stuff has sprouted and grown DIRECTLY on line.

Andy


 
Posted : February 4, 2026 1:27 pm
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geoff-ashworth
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@andy-bruner we have privet in our yard that my wife wants gone. I know how fast it grows.


 
Posted : February 4, 2026 2:08 pm
Andy Bruner
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@geoff-ashworth The only way I've been successful in getting rid of it is to cut it off at the ground and give it a good soaking with Roundup or the equivalent.

Our first home had a variegated privet by the mailbox.  My wife wanted me to prune it, so I did to about waist high.  No, she said, a little more.  So the next day it was about 18 inches high with almost no limbs.  You've killed it she said.  Nope.  By the end of the summer it was 6 feet tall and really bushed out.

Andy


 
Posted : February 4, 2026 2:35 pm
not-my-real-name
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On the construction of a bicycle trail we found several stakes of the original survey that had been done by others. One had the tack still in it but was so old it was being held by threads. We watched the tack fall into the dust as we approached. Another was just a pile of black dust where the stake had rotted. Miraculously, one stake survived because it had been set in a gravelly area with good drainage. I agree with you that better planning for control points is preferred.


Historic boundaries and conservation efforts.

 
Posted : February 4, 2026 3:38 pm
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jimcox
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Some types of wood are much more ground-hardy than others.

Here Down Under we use wooden boundary markers made from Jarrah and Totara.

It is not unusual to find pegs placed over a century ago - often in surprisingly good condition.

Can't say the same for Pine


 
Posted : February 4, 2026 7:00 pm
Joe Ferg
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I worked in the Elliot State Forest here in Oregon. When we found a blow down cedar work would stop until we had cut as many "hubs" as we could carry.


Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country. Typing class 9th grade!

 
Posted : February 4, 2026 8:38 pm
Norman_Oklahoma
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Cedar is native to Oregon and would certainly outlast the fir hubs in common use. But hubs of sound cedar wood would probably cost more than a couple of feet of 1/2" rebar and a plastic cap. And those rebar will certainly ring the pin finder much better.   


 
Posted : February 4, 2026 10:16 pm
Norman_Oklahoma
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Posted by: @norman-oklahoma
↑

Cedar is native to Oregon and would certainly outlast the fir hubs in common use. But hubs of sound cedar wood would probably cost more than a couple of feet of 1/2" rebar and a plastic cap. And those rebar will certainly ring the pin finder much better.   

In my experience, in Oklahoma, there is often little or no topsoil. 60d spikes hammer into well consolidated silt/sandstone and hold fast. Until the next heavy frost, anyway. Here in the PNW the topmost layer is commonly organic material to a depth of a foot or more. Common wood hubs and 6" nails do no not penetrate that layer. 

It may be perceived to be a cost thing, but it really isn't. Wood hubs are not that cheap. Iron is not that expensive. And I'm talking about a project that is running well north of $100 million with a decade long timeline.  Spend the extra $2! 

 


 
Posted : February 5, 2026 10:47 am
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