This local company could be your way in, although the door might not open for awhile due to the economy. It is getting better, especially with oil-patch work in ND and Canada drawing surveyors from other areas.
You could call this guy back, tell him you're still interested, and ask him what kind of equipment he's running. Then get manuals for it, by download or otherwise, and read them. Manuals are harder to follow if you don't have the equipment in front of you, but some of the information would stay with you and be useful later.
If you took plane geometry and plane trigonometry in high school, you could review them. If you didn't, you could buy some used textbooks and study them. Nearly all survey calculations use plane trigonometry. You could also get a basic CAD program and practice with it. Most likely it would not have the menus for survey calculations that are found in Carlson and Civil 3D, but knowing some basic CAD could come in handy.
As to what your duties might be in your first job, leave that up to your employer. Meanwhile, prepare as well as you can.
Good luck, and don't give up.
There still are companies that have rod men. Especially up here in the northeast where GPS cannot be used for everything. I started as a rod man and spent many years only knowing that. It got me to like the profession and wanted to carry it further. Eventually was able to get my license. No formal education in the surveying field. Lots of on the job training and reading. It still is possible.
belle
I started in this field at the age of 36 with zero experience and seriously no clue about surveying. I had been working as a textile printer in Paterson, NJ. I started as instrument operator and eventually got the opportunity to crew chief. I also was the only one in that office that would go to classes for inspections and soil for septic design. At age 42 I took AutoCAD classes at an extension division of a county college. 30 weeks and it was the best thing I ever accomplished. The last position and my current job were because of AutoCAD abilities. And my current position is great.
So, stick your nose in and don't get discouraged by the fool above.
Post here early and often and I'll wager something will happen.
If you need any more emcouragement just ask.
Best Wishes
Chuck
Belle is a common enough name in East Texas and I sure wouldn't worry about that. I have had several women on field crews and found all of them to be great workers. There were some tasks that didn't suit them, just as there were some tasks that they excelled in. I try to tailor assignments around the crew that can best handle it. Around here, your biggest problem would be that there just isn't enough work floating around to keep everyone busy, therefore there isn't a lot of hiring going on. If you really want pipeline work, find the companies that mainly do pipeline surveying. While almost every company will do pipeline surveying, very few do LOTS of pipeline surveying - if that's what you really want, seek those companies out. Other than that, just be patient and try to find out where there may be some areas where work is abounding. Good Luck!
Wasn't Como Textile was it?
The more skills and abilities that you can offer a company, the better your chances of getting hired. Even at entry level positions.
Most survey companies do still use rodmen, but, "the times, they are a changing". You need to cover as many bases as possible. Several people have recommended that you get additional training in AutoCAD (I would suggest Carlson Survey) and that is the best suggestion that you have gotten yet. Finding a drafter that knows the software AND survey basics in computations, deed research and interpretation, and building surfaces or working with scanned data is a rarity indeed and there is a demand for those people.
My firm has 4 people to take the field data, process it and prepare professional grade documents and all the associated stuff that goes with it. Finding people that can do that is difficult.
It's another option that should be explored. I've been preparing quad maps, plats, ALTA surveys, etc. for MANY years. It's what I do. It's all I do. I don't get out in the field, but I don't get heat stroke in the summer or frost bite in the winter.
Check all your options. You have the desire to get into the field. That's half the battle. Good luck with your endeavors.
Don't get discouraged. Back when I got into the field it took me most of a year to get someone to consider me and I had already been in school a year for a two year degree. We had just come out of the Carter years so things were a little slow to pick up. It wasn't as bad as it is now so stick to it. I'd really back up the suggestion getting a little schooling in CAD or the like. It shows your more than interested in the field and gives you another tool in the box to use even if you don't stick with surveying theres other jobs to use your skills in.
My current partner is a woman. I don't think that's as big of hang up as it was when she started. We hired her at the company I was formerly at because out of all the applicants she had a two year degree in the field. It showed she was really interested and would probably stick with it, unlike the cabinet makers, auto workers, pipe fitters, etc. who were just lookin for a place to land until they could get back to their regular professions.
Back when my partner started she was only one of two women in the profession I knew. I was her crew chief and the other guys were always trying to make her job easier so then they weren't getting their jobs done. One day we where heading out to stake a building, I pulled over at the hardware store and bought a 6lb sledge for her and told her she would be setting the hubs that day. She just kind of looked at me like she didn't know if she could do it and I told her "If your going to do a man's job, then when you get in this truck, your ass better be just as hairy as mine". Eventually she worked up to a 10lb hammer and is doing as much work if not more than other crew members I've had. I've had a lot of guys leave me in the middle of the day because they couldn't hack it.
Good luck and don't give up until you know if this job is for you.
always over reacting .
Everyone needs to start somewhere. Heck, I graduated with a civil engineering degree and didn't know squat about surveying when I started. There are a few traits I look for in a rodman. A strong work ethic, honesty, and punctuality. The rest is trainable.
Interested in moving to Massachusetts? We have work coming out of our ears. I cant hire now going into winter, but in the spring...
-V
Belle
Pay no attention to Paul. He's an absolutely genuine person that comes off rough at first. I feel confident that he meant no harm, but KUDOS to you for the response. You'll fit in just fine. 🙂
Wow, very tacky Paul
> At best. rude and sexist more likely.
Probably not. He's quite a bit older than even you Andy. The comment, I took, while rude in this day, was probably very apropos 20 years ago when he was your age and it wasn't sexist at all, but more likely as helpful as an old man could be. Product of your raising I suppose.
That being said, I'm sure it wasn't taken as it was intended either.
Well everyone else has some advice so here's mine
> Well.... I posted on here awhile back with a question. I got many answers. So I set out to give it a try. Sadly, I never had a single call back or reply through mail. Now I know it's hard with no experience, but any pointers? I even started applying with some pipeline companies, nothing.
>
> I've been discouraged and let time slip btwn the cracks for weeks at a time but I always come back and try again. I know women work this field and most start as rodman, so now I'm really confused to my problem. I have an associates in system technologies and 2 semesters from graduating in Cisco at the time in '03, but was ready to set out and work so I didn't complete my final 2 semesters for my 2nd degree. When it come to hard work I'm no stranger. My dad's a logger & I've helped w the saws. I've did my share of maintenance in Colorado in crawl spaces w busted copper pipes (property manager), level mobile Homes, small janitorial business owner handling harsh chemicals and so forth....... So why is it so hard for me in this field getting work?
>
> I've even stayed on top of companies with calls & emails.
>
> I just want that chance to prove myself!
>
> Thanks in advance, any advice is good advice at this point.
Drop the rodman idea. We haven't hired one in 20 years. Most crews are two man crews and if I'm on the crew, I'm running the rod, the book, the job, et cetera. Where the entry level position is that you want is the instrument operator.
Any surveyor that is worth his salt can, in three days time, make an instrument man. In fact, when we hire someone with zero experience (my preferred method as I don't have to break other bad habits), they don't go out with the crew for three days. They show up at 7 a.m. just like the crew and go home at 5 p.m. just like the crew, but, and they are paid, they spend the first 5 hours setting the gun up and tearing it down. That's it. Then, we mix in pointing and direction for the next 5 hours. The next day, one hour setting up and tearing down, one hour pointing, then the rest of the day is spent doubling angles and setting a back sight.
The final day is a loop around the block. I typically hold back a junior party chief as they are always looking to prove themselves and they may run that loop, with a data collector, doubling angles, setting backsights, 10 times. Each time it's done, I stop what I'm doing, reduce the data and evaluate the loop. Then at the end of the day, we look at all of the loops together and see the differences and where things can improve.
The next day, even though they're slow, they hit the ground with the crew. They shadow the instrument man for a week basically setting the gun up and getting on the backsight for the operator and after a few days, the instrument operator shadows them. Inside of 8 business days, they are as fast as 95% of the instrument men/women in the profession and the work is as clean as I expect.
The days of learning on the job are pretty well gone. You need something to prime the pump and if you have nothing, look for an employer who does something similar. It makes a world of difference. You may not move off the gun for months or even years. Those moments where you do when you float to another crew for rainouts or whatever, make the most of your time spent in a different position.
That's my advice for whatever it's worth and how we operate. We began this approach about 8 years ago and it saves more money than is spent and I've fired people who couldn't do the job and the crew never had the opportunity to cover for since I can watch the training from my desk and see if they spend time on the phone unattended or if they are serious about the opportunity.
Good luck, and on a serious note, if Paul's comments offended you, while I'm not defending him, you may want to either thicken the skin or find another opportunity. Field hands are notorious for exceedingly crude language and behavior and it comes with the territory. Especially on out of town crews. In town crews are only slightly better. You gotta be tough to work outside and those that do are typically "a little different" and the folks who transitioned to the office are no different, the only difference is they could adapt. 🙂
No!
> First click on your name, belle is followed by the female sex symbol O over +, that is all.
the female gender symbol is put next to your name if you clicked that you were female on your profile....just as the male symbol is put by your name if you clicked that you were male....you do not that.?
It has been tough getting jobs these days. I don't know if many are ignoring your post due to your gender. That dilemma is not as prevalent as it used to be anyway in my opinion.
Certainly a lot of women have worked in surveying, but I am sure it is a bit tougher to get into than if you are a white male.
I have had licensed surveyors and eit's apply for entry-level survey technicians here. I even have one field hand that just took his PE exam. Don't get discourage, but do recognize that a lot of people still want work.
Good luck, and if you keep at it, I am sure you'll get a job. ("rodman" might be a bit of an outdated term, as some point out. I'm sure they know what you mean though, and many of the crew chiefs prefer to run the rod, which is why some might be giving you a little flack about that.)
We are actively seeking female craft employees. If you are near NOLA shoot me an email and I can give you a contact name and number.
Thanks for those comments, CHarmon. As mostly a construction (and topo survey tech) :girl:, I've pounded a hell of a lot of hubs back in the day. Miles of bluetopping and construction staking before machine control became more and more commonplace. Yes, I don't have the upper body strength of a guy, but I made up for it by good technique and being able to swing a sledge solidly and square, all day long. Outdid the office guys who would come out to help and kept trying to drive hubs with the hammer handle. Heh. (However, my knees and back are shot now; can't work that hard anymore.)
I was eager to learn, kept at it, had a good math background, which really helped, and eventually made party chief.
Things are different from when I first started out, but you've gotten some solid advice about how to get going in surveying. Good luck, Belle. And keep on keepin' on! 🙂
Well everyone else has some advice so here's mine
Kris, I actually like the way your methods sound in training. It is a process,I'd even like in learning.
I have a very tough hide, just short fueled to ignorance. Be it a man or a woman, so long as we don't live the life of being run over, we will stand our grounds...
You actually gave me an idea with that. Thanks
Well everyone else has some advice so here's mine
Kris, awesome training methods! Good stuff.
As far as your last paragraph, the guys I worked with when I started out tried to rattle me and gross me out, but they didn't realize they were working with a gal who drove a cab in Hempstead , New York, stacked brush and dug fire trails in the Packwood area on mixed crews, and tended bar in a tavern frequented by loggers. So I'd heard and seen it all already and could give it back.*
*Though it was hard to take when certain crew members would wait to get back in the rig,especially at lunchtime, in order to release toxic fumes that had all of us scrambling to open the windows. +o(
I shot ya a email ... Much appreciated. Yes, everyone has to start somewhere.
Wow, very tacky Paul
Well, I'd say the days of ignoring your elders sexist, racist, etc. comments have been over for at least 20 years. I call them as I see them.
I love the training plan you have, Kris! Can I sign up for some surveyor boot camp?!
