I recently found an iron pipe on a survey. The iron pipe is described?ÿ in the deed, and, it is old. I'm sure it is the original corner.
The problem was the iron pipe was in a hole I dug approximately 2 and one-half feet deep. So I set a steel bar and aluminum cap flush and directly over the old pipe. Then I thought, how am I going to describe this on the map?
Witness corner came to mind. After testing this phrase out on a few of my knowledgeable?ÿ friends I find the phrase is a bit obscure. In fact, only surveyors use this phrase, and, I for one did not know the meaning absolutely.
Anyway, I decided to describe it as a marked cap set directly above the preserved,and, recovered mark.
I still wonder if witness corner could be an appropriate descriptor.?ÿ
Nope. ?ÿNot a witness corner. ?ÿWitness corners occupy a spot that IS NOT the corner. ?ÿDescribing it as you did, then making your survey available to the public is the correct choice.
I would call it a memorial.?ÿ Just ask Jerry Penry.
More is more. I think describing it the way that you did is better and leaves no doubt.?ÿ
A few months ago, I asked about what others do when finding a monument buried deep. I have been setting 60d nails over the monument, but I like the idea that was given regarding using PVC.?ÿ
https://surveyorconnect.com/community/surveying-geomatics/finding-monuments-buried-deep/#post-409907
Case the hole with 4" PVC with a clean-out on top and write "Survey Monument Inside" on the cap.
Preserves the original monument while making it easy to find/retrace.
In my opinion, casing the pipe in anything less than a 12" pipe would be a big waste of time and basically useless moving forward. Measure your arm and if it is not longer than the depth of the pipe, or if your hand will not fit in the pipe than how are you going to clean out the debris that eventually will find there way into it. You would be better off enlarging the hole and leaving an big-a** rock over the pipe that the next guy can roll over if he wants. The words are fine and filing the record is icing on the cake.?ÿ
I just drop a bunch of flagging in the hole so the next guy knows to keep digging. I really dont think 2 feet is deep enough to set a monument on top of it.?ÿ
say it like it is: "Found iron pipe (size) 2 and one-half feet deep. Set a steel bar (size) and aluminum cap (markings) flush and directly over the old pipe."
I use "below grade" rather than "deep", and "at surface" rather than "flush"... but use the terms that are common in your community.
This is a really good question, what do you call that type of monument.
The way you decided to describe it is perfect. It is definitely not a witness corner.?ÿ
Thank you to everyone that posted a comment and to those that read this post too. I really liked the ideas and had thought about encasing it with a pipe too. Anyway it will become record, I convinced my client of that because of the important information we discovered. I don't how how these monuments got so deep. I'm just glad it was discovered and perpetuated.
There is a county near here that requires cased survey monuments to be set in every subdivision.?ÿ If you didn't know what you were looking at you'd think it was a water meter.?ÿ They are always clean and the monument accessible, nothing seems to "eventually find it's way in there".
If you set the casing near or slightly above flush, tell me, why would it get all that dirty??ÿ He said it was only 2.5' deep, my arm is about 2.25' long?
What he did is commendable, I'm not deriding his decision, I'm just noting what I may have done if the materials were handy...not that I carry pvc with me.
Interesting someone would post about this.?ÿ ?ÿJust today I had to perpetuate a monument that I found underground.?ÿ ?ÿMy solution was to put a tag on the original monument (required my law) and then I put another rebar on top with a cap while burying the original monument.?ÿ ?ÿI will make note on the plat that the corner was "perpetuated by the new rebar and cap" and describe the original and it's depth.
There is a county near here that requires cased survey monuments to be set in every subdivision.?ÿ If you didn't know what you were looking at you'd think it was a water meter.?ÿ They are always clean and the monument accessible, nothing seems to "eventually find it's way in there".
If you set the casing near or slightly above flush, tell me, why would it get all that dirty??ÿ He said it was only 2.5' deep, my arm is about 2.25' long?
What he did is commendable, I'm not deriding his decision, I'm just noting what I may have done if the materials were handy...not that I carry pvc with me.
The Counties around here require monument boxes for street intersections.?ÿ One actually requires all centerline monuments to be boxed.?ÿ While you may get away with having the box proud of the surrounding grade for something off the roadway, it is frowned upon in on centerline.?ÿ Most of them end up full of oily water and road grime.?ÿ They are always a real joy to when the monument itself is the lowest point in the box.
Sometimes there are little critters nesting in these boxes.
...They are always a real joy to when the monument itself is the lowest point in the box.
And the mark is a lead and tack....
Every monument, in the entire city of Seattle, is like this. Way too much fun occupying one of these, on a rainy day, in traffic. ?ÿ ??ÿ
Aww, cute Warren. I would show this to my wife but I may need her in the field some day.?ÿ
I've left a section of 4" pipe over a corner before. But it was only about a foot deep and even then I paused. Around here the groundwater can fill these "cases" up and if you need to use them you have to bale them out; something not easily done in 4" diameter. Also if the point is 2' deep you better get the casing plumb because if not or if there is a possibility that it will move it becomes just another thing you have to dig up. Recently I lost an argument with a city engineer who put a piece of ductile iron pipe over a quarter corner (and benchmark) that is down about 2.5 feet in a landscape island. I wanted the monument referenced (I've tied it previously) but he thought otherwise. Now the case has been run over by a truck and is out of plumb, accessing the monument now is not possible. I should post a picture.?ÿ
I've seen?ÿ spiders, dead rodents, unimaginable muck, rags, and fireworks inside.?ÿ
For my own reference I will locate several identifiable objects like poles, sign posts, fence corners, reference rods, building corners, etc and include those in my property description as accessories to the monument, aka witness corners.
At monument itself, I leave it as is and leave a heavy stream of flagging leading to the surface for the next surveyor to follow as they dig to reveal the monument for themselves.
Often I will place a rock, brick or other seminatural object near the surface and described the monument as "2 inch iron pipe 2 feet deep and covered by a 10 inch iron ore rock" for example and then give bearing and distance to the acessories that were located.
Also, most of the time, there are nothing more than saplings and/or trees around, I set a tpost about 1ft away and lean the top over the monument.
