Digression one: When I first went into business I did a survey for a family well known for stiffing their clients. They, she especially, were skilled at finding or imagining something, anything, that might be wrong, and obviously if it was wrong it must be the surveyor's fault and there is no reason to pay the bill. How people like that can sleep at night I don't know, but I guess they rationalize it away. That was my first and until this month my only experience with a non-paying cheapskate client.
Digression two: In 1773 Dr. Samuel Johnson and James Boswell went on a tour of then wild Scotland, and in talking to the various members of the clans they found that many of them were concerned with their wicked neighbors in the next valley. The problem, of course, was always the clan in the next valley.
Digression three: A land owner had an entire section, and in the 1960s opted to split the section in an odd manner, which was fine because he owned all of it. He went westerly from the east quarter corner 2, 640 feet, thence at right angles to the north line of the section, winding up some 33 feet west of the north quarter corner. I had the old survey records from the firm that did the work, so when I surveyed several sections out there I was able to file the definitive survey drawing explaining how the monuments came to be there and why it was not a standard section breakdown.
Problem: I get this call from a lady way out in the sticks, desperate to have someone find the monument at the corner of her site because their miserable neighbors were about to move their fence over unto her property by many feet. She had amassed a good deal of survey information and found my name because of the record of surveys I had filed. Her deed called out an aluminum capped rebar; her neighbor’s deed called out a parcel in a record of survey which showed the same aluminum capped rebar. The problem was, the aluminum capped rebar was gone and someone had set an iron rebar, clearly in the wrong place. My record of survey had included that aluminum capped rebar along with many other monuments, so this was a simple one for me. It involved a goodish hike up and down to find the old survey monuments, and I’m not as young as I used to be. After that I went to her place, and she and her husband walked me over to the new fence and the wrong iron rebar. Only it wasn’t wrong. It was within hundredths of the location of the old aluminum capped rebar. The aluminum cap was gone, but no doubt it was the same rebar. She was crestfallen, and he was irate. The wicked neighbors were right, and they were wrong, a bitter pill to swallow.
Not until later did I realize he was irate because obviously I had joined the other incompetent surveyors in not finding the right corner, and he wasn’t going to pay for yet another bad survey. Wow, who saw that coming, huh? It wasn’t much, but they have stiffed me.
Homeowners/Call-Ins always pay 100% up front less stakes. Problem solved
> Not until later did I realize he was irate because obviously I had joined the other incompetent surveyors in not finding the right corner, and he wasn’t going to pay for yet another bad survey. Wow, who saw that coming, huh? It wasn’t much, but they have stiffed me.
Put a lien on em right away and let them know about it. If they don't like you now, might as well give them a really good reason for it. B-)
I thought you were going to say they ended up being the first bunch from Digression 1 to which I would have said dumb-A on you then - unless of course there might be some sort of special "what goes around...." thing happening.
> I thought you were going to say they ended up being the first bunch from Digression 1 ...
Me too.
Steve
Hey, I can see his point
"Not until later did I realize he was irate because obviously I had joined the other incompetent surveyors in not finding the right corner, and he wasn’t going to pay for yet another bad survey."
"I'm not paying anyone until someone gets it right, and I'm still waiting."
😛
Don
Yessireebob, sue the britches off them conniving bastids. Seriously, do not take this kind of foolishness. It only encourages them to do similar things with all sorts of other vendors.
I sued an 80+ year-old woman whose only rationale for not paying was that she never paid anyone for anything (carpenter, plumber, fence builder, etc.) and I was, apparently, the first person to actually put her through the wringer. She had millions in assets so it was no problem collecting the judgement awarded to me.
In another case my lawyer was only a couple days away from conducting a land auction of the entire property in order to collect my survey fee when all sorts of money was suddenly put in my bank account. It was considerably more than the original bill because it had to cover ALL of my expenses in collecting. This was another wicked old lady who didn't think anyone would actually sue an old lady. WRONG!!!!!
:good:
folks with money
I was about 40 years old before I realized people with deep pockets weren't that way because they spend money. Most of them have means because they never spend it!
Put a lien on em right away and let them know about it
In Arizona you can't just file a lien on a piece of property for an unpaid fee for services performed. An intent to file a lien needs to be disclosed in writing to the client before the work even begins. Just arbitrarilly filing a lien without doing so could result in your being sued for possibly a minimum of $5000 for even filing without the intent notice to the client.
When I first started my own business in 1988 I had a client who was just starting in the time share condominium concept near the West entrance to Disney World. This guy dressed like a homeless person and drove a beat up coupe-de-ville convertible. At the time I wondered how he could have possibly obtained financing considering his appearance, although I knew nothing of his background. We worked together for around two years and I became fed up with always having to threaten a lien so as to be paid. We parted company and are both still in business. There is a difference though, he is currently the wealthiest person in Orlando and owns the largest house east of the Mississippi called Versailles. I am still a Land Surveyor, but I am a happy with life Land Surveyor.
Lesson one in a Surveyor’s life: Wealthy clients are the worst payers out there. :-/
I used to look at "rich" people a little cockeyed too. But then I discovered you've got to just treat them like everyone else and look at their past history to determine if I want to work for them. If they have a history of trying to weasel out of every little item on the invoice or taking to long to pay (it's a small community, word spreads fast if your cheap/a cheat) I walk away, too much work out there to be working for free. I've got won older lady who catches us on the job sight and always want to pay on the first day. I tell her I don't know how much her bill will be. A number of times she just hands me a check and tells me if that don' cover it, let her know, if it's too much just put it on the next job. It's churches I won't work for anymore, want everything done for free (we are church. you're going to charge us?) and then when you do agree to a price there's always some reason it'll take 90 days to pay.
I did have one of those "stingy little old lady" types last year, crazy as all get out and just not nice. I had to wait a bit to get paid, and she didn't quite cover it all (less $50), but at least I know I'll never work for her again... there's a note on my file that says the same.
In my area, I've had more problems with the "everyday guy" that's in a business not too much unlike ours (small contractors, small business, etc.). I've had NO problems with the several churches/cemeteries that I've dealt with, they've been first class (an aside: the pastor of the latest church I'm dealing with doesn't think much of me or surveyors apparently, because I was spoken down to several times in a 3 minute interaction. #1: Thankfully, I'm dealing with the trustees on the survey. #2: It's probably a good thing that I didn't tell her my thoughts on religion or the way she treated people).
Carl
> In Arizona you can't just file a lien on a piece of property for an unpaid fee for services performed. An intent to file a lien needs to be disclosed in writing to the client before the work even begins. Just arbitrarilly filing a lien without doing so could result in your being sued for possibly a minimum of $5000 for even filing without the intent notice to the client.
I'm with Mr Dowdell here. AZ has funny laws regarding liens. You have to file a "notice of intent", which cost's about $30 or so here. Then you have to realize the guy is prikking you on paying, and the meter is still running. Not sure of that time stamp. It's kind of a lose lose scenario that tends to favor dikkwads like Bruce's ex-client to behave in the manner they behave. A deal is a deal, so stick to it - arse hole
Me, when it comes to private folks - for jobs under $1K, cash up front. Above that, I'll accept 50% and will proceed. Full payment due prior to delivery. The problem is the corners are set and they don't even care about a map. I've had to chase that other 50% a few times.
Don't usually have these problems with construction staking though. Weird, eh?
Funny thing is, in my 14 yrs of self employment in MI, I never had this problem. I move to AZ and everybody thinks they have an angle to phyuk with you. Why? I do not know the answer, but suspect it's somewhat cultural.