Shawn Billings, post: 375599, member: 6521 wrote: It is a humorous notion that I would take PR advice from you Kent.
Well, if you ever decide that you are actually offering a service as a licensed professional, you might think, if even briefly, about the impression that using some bogus corporate-sounding name leaves in the mind of the consumer.
In the future, when the price shoppers call endlessly wanting you to give them a "bid" of $300 for providing $3000 worth of professional services, you can thank me for having pointed out the obvious fact that you aren't running a Jiffy Lube or a Wal Mart and that your business name is the first place to make that important distinction. You're welcome.
Kent McMillan, post: 375578, member: 3 wrote: Question: why have you chosen to practice under a name like "Pendulum Surveying" instead of "Shawn Billings and Associates" or something similar?
I'm not knocking "swings both ways", but the fakey corporate-sounding names mainly serve to make land surveying seem like a commodity rather than a service offered by a specific, responsible professional.
When I opened my own shop I had a well known name and to me it made sense to call the company Bruce Small Surveys, Inc. Quite a few people thought I was wrong, but I'm convinced it was one of the things I got right.
Bruce Small, post: 375601, member: 1201 wrote: When I opened my own shop I had a well known name and to me it made sense to call the company Bruce Small Surveys, Inc. Quite a few people thought I was wrong, but I'm convinced it was one of the things I got right.
To me, that is absolutely the thing to do. Land surveying is a service rendered by ... a land surveyor, and professional reputation is at the heart of it. Any other name is basically just a mask or some other disguise.
For a sole-proprietorship, part of the appeal is that the prospective client speaks to Bruce Small himself and expects to get a service of the quality that Bruce Small customarily produces. That is what brings the right sort of clients and keeps them returning.
Kent McMillan, post: 375602, member: 3 wrote: To me, that is absolutely the thing to do. Land surveying is a service rendered by ... a land surveyor, and professional reputation is at the heart of it. Any other name is basically just a mask or some other disguise.
For a sole-proprietorship, part of the appeal is that the prospective client speaks to Bruce Small himself and expects to get a service of the quality that Bruce Small customarily produces. That is what brings the right sort of clients and keeps them returning.
I agree with what you are saying but not the way you approached it with Shawn.
Nearly every land survey company here is Geo this or Precise that. When large projects are completed here the names of the architects, engineers, quantity surveyors etc. are all listed as being involved on the signs, documentation, websites etc. NEVER is the Land surveyor on this list. I think this is mainly because Geo Precise Globe Control Inc. etc. just sounds crap and unprofessional.
No offence meant to anyone just think it should be a consideration for anyone thinking of starting a business.
If one is a one-man shop I agree wholeheartedly that placing one's name in the title is not only wise but profitable as clients have a reason to remember you, specifically.
If one is setting up what is hoped to be a firm for many years to come with numerous license holders coming and going over the decades then the more generic name makes sense. Certain clients expect certain things. Contracting with one specific individual may seem to be too risky especially if all would be lost if something tragic were to happen to that individual. The larger the project, the more sense this makes.
One should avoid using certain phrases unless they are, in fact, true. For example, using a title such as Land Surveying Specialists should not be used by a one-man shop no matter how many grunts are employed. The name suggests multiple professionals have teamed together to provide improved capabilities. Being overly pompous can work to a firm's disadvantage as well when the potential client discovers they have been duped into believing something that is not true. I recall the first time I flew into Houston INTERCONTINENTAL Airport. While it was true that aircraft large enough to travel nonstop to another continent could take off and land at that facility, the same was true of any other facility with similar landing strips and support facilities. There must be tiny airports along the Aleutian Islands that would support the potential for flight to Russia. Cutesy poo names such as Scans 'R' Us should be avoided entirely, partially because the potential client is in need of body scanning, not something any land surveyor is licensed to perform.
Holy Cow, post: 375618, member: 50 wrote: If one is a one-man shop I agree wholeheartedly that placing one's name in the title is not only wise but profitable as clients have a reason to remember you, specifically.
If one is setting up what is hoped to be a firm for many years to come with numerous license holders coming and going over the decades then the more generic name makes sense. Certain clients expect certain things. Contracting with one specific individual may seem to be too risky especially if all would be lost if something tragic were to happen to that individual. The larger the project, the more sense this makes.
I think that it's worth pointing out that the "storefront" names in practice really just represent camouflage for the fact that work in the organization is so highly fragmented that no one person in it really has control or knowledge of the service that is actually being rendered. My own opinion is that the only person who should be applying his or her seal and signature to surveying products in such an organization is one of the licensees with an ownership stake in the organization, so it still boils down to the Joseph Doe Surveying Group, or something similar.
The fakey, franchise-sounding firm names have become so common that I think it is worth emphasizing how unprofessional they essentially are compared to firm names based upon those of the responsible licensee.
Kent,
Are you suggesting that firms with dozens of licensees working there are unprofessional? Is it really better to have a name like The Meriwether Lewis Survey Group where the client already knows the named party has been deceased for decades? Or, does the firm name need to change every other year as licensees come and go..................like some law firm that was Smith and Jones at Law then Smith, Jones and Abernathy at Law then Jones and Abernathy at Law........................................ I absolutely detest that kind of flipflopping.
Holy I would go even further, so the ER Doctor couldn't perform his life saving surgery because he is not on the hospital board of trustees and not familiar with the patients history?
Holy Cow, post: 375625, member: 50 wrote: Are you suggesting that firms with dozens of licensees working there are unprofessional?
The work that such organizations churn out tends to be a product without a parent. No one in the organization seems to usually take ownership and responsibility for it. When things go wrong, lots of luck figuring out who is really responsible for the failure. I don't mean whom to sue, but what actually happened or failed to happen. I consider that arrangement to be inherently unprofessional.
Is it really better to have a name like The Meriwether Lewis Survey Group where the client already knows the named party has been deceased for decades? Or, does the firm name need to change every other year as licensees come and go. like some law firm that was Smith and Jones at Law then Smith, Jones and Abernathy at Law then Jones and Abernathy at Law... I absolutely detest that kind of flipflopping.
In my opinion, the standard should be which licensees actually own stock in the corporation or partnership and are responsible for damages suffered as a result of deficiencies in services rendered. Those should be connected with the firm name in some way. A firm that has a fluid pool of principals usually shows symptoms of other problems, so allowing the public to see that infirmity as reflected in the firm name seems appropriate to me.
Kent McMillan, post: 375621, member: 3 wrote: I think that it's worth pointing out that the "storefront" names in practice really just represent camouflage for the fact that work in the organization is so highly fragmented that no one person in it really has control or knowledge of the service that is actually being rendered. My own opinion is that the only person who should be applying his or her seal and signature to surveying products in such an organization is one of the licensees with an ownership stake in the organization, so it still boils down to the Joseph Doe Surveying Group, or something similar.
The fakey, franchise-sounding firm names have become so common that I think it is worth emphasizing how unprofessional they essentially are compared to firm names based upon those of the responsible licensee.
Mr. McMillian, with the utmost respect, I submit arrogance and condescension is unprofessional.
The one regret I have about choosing my company name 23 years ago was adding "& Mapping" to "Frame Surveying." While I do produce maps, the added syllables don't really convey much useful information, and I'm sure tired of typing them.
These guys used to have a storefront, they are not really engineers but they had a great sign.
WGD, post: 375557, member: 8001 wrote: Wellllll......not going to name any names, but I know of a 1700+ acre, 5 corner boundary in GA that was completed in under 2 hours with GPS. The crew doing the work then spent the next few days laying low in a duck blind.......And, no, it was NOT billed hourly B-)
Care to explain how you do a 1700 acre survey & 5 corners in 2 hours with a GPS ?
Steve Hankins, post: 375631, member: 351 wrote: Mr. McMillian, with the utmost respect, I submit arrogance and condescension is unprofessional.
Except when the question is whether the practice of a profession really is any different than selling chicken wings or brake jobs, there are obvious wrong answers.
It's discouraging to watch Texas licensees actively try to turn the practice of a profession into just a list of franchise operations with catchy-sounding names and discount coupons.
Steve Hankins, post: 375631, member: 351 wrote: Mr. McMillian, with the utmost respect, I submit arrogance and condescension is unprofessional.
If I weren't a professional with a high standard of ethics I'd probably have to tell Kent to either "bite me" or "blow it out your shorts you old duff". But since I am a professional with those maintained high standards I have to, of course, avoid saying such things.
Kent's way off base here. There are a good number of surveying firms that provide excellent professional services that operate under a number of generic sounding titles. His remark of: "I think that it's worth pointing out that the "storefront" names in practice really just represent camouflage for the fact that work in the organization is so highly fragmented that no one person in it really has control or knowledge of the service that is actually being rendered." is an indication of a theory based on simple prejudice. No correlation can be drawn between the operating name of a firm and the quality of their work.
As a matter of fact, I can name several consulting firms with the principals' titles of the names as the firm's name....that actually don't have clients...they have victims.
paden cash, post: 375652, member: 20 wrote: There are a good number of surveying firms that provide excellent professional services that operate under a number of generic sounding titles.
So, when you decided to set up shop under the rubric that you did, what made you think that it was smarter to do business under a storefront name rather than your own? I mean, you could have changed your name from "Cash" to "Crediteau" or something to which your prospective clients might have even more positive associations.
Generally, I think it is fair to observe that licensees who choose to do business under a storefront name instead of their own do so because they think it is necessary to market their services. That does mean that they believe that it's useful to dissociate the service from the licensee who provides it.
Find corners and ties. Set up base. Tie in and shoot corners and ties. Check numbers against existing plat. Box it.
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I've been fortunate to Survey in a dozen or so States (Texas included) and about as many countries. In my experience there is little to no correlation between name and business model. Nearly every case of crap business models existed because the local Surveyors were too chicken crap to police their own.
I am not shy about calling out substandard and unprofessional conduct. That includes disparaging an entire segment of our Profession without cause. Hijacking the thread was rude. Disparaging others over business name choices was and is childish and unprofessional. It is also what we've come to expect of you.
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thebionicman, post: 375667, member: 8136 wrote: Disparaging others over business name choices was and is childish and unprofessional. It is also what we've come to expect of you.
So, should one understand that pretty much any name a professional surveyor chooses to do business as is perfectly fine as far as you're concerned?
