Let's say that you could only have one person to assist you in your surveying duties and you could pick anyone you liked, for any reason. What are some of the qualities you would look for. I personally be most inclined to choose someone who is on the path towards getting their license. A mild case of OCD doesn't hurt. A curious and determined nature. Physically fit. Educated. Conversely there are certain qualities in an individual that I seek to avoid. Folks that love to argue even when they don't really have a clue what they're talking about, people that can't check their personal problems at the door, folks just plain lacking any enthusiasm for life. Folks that just refuse to admit that they don't know the answer to something and feel the need to make something up instead. Dishonest people. People that can't take constructive criticism. Okay, this line of thought is at serious risk of deteriorating into a rant. o.O
What are the qualities you would look for in your idea of an ideal helper, call him a party chief, IM, chainman, whatever and the why.
The single most important quality for me would be honesty. Perhaps the form 'integrity' says it better. When I read notes, time cards, etc. I don't want to wonder how much of it is BS.
If the integrity is there I look for someone with mental pathologies that compliment my own...
Epistemic modesty
"What qualities make for a good surveyor?"
Tall order. To start with, a lot of things.
First let me say that what makes a good surveyor and what makes a good helper can be two distinct things. Without flapping my feathers too awfully much, I don't need a good surveyor around...I've got one.
But I've got good help, too. Over the years there has been a few of my helpers (less than fingers on my hand) that have gone forth and turned into darn good surveyors. They did that on their own. I might have given them a grocery list they might need for the journey, but they did that on their own.
To coin a phrase, good help is hard to find. If you can find technical help that is honest and humble to a fault and naturally inquisitive, that's a good start. The love of the outdoors is a must with a childlike wonderment for every mystery hidden in the deeds. If your help has all that and shows some aptitude for math and abstract reasoning, a surveyor they might be, given time.
I have always been a firm believer that while geodetic measuring is a science, surveying is an art. A good surveyor has to know when to keep the Crayons in the lines...and when it's ok to color outside them as well.
Had to look that one up, but I'm still not sure I understand.
The mere fact that you used the word might suggest you wouldn't find yourself when looking? 🙂 😀 :whistle:
I would define it as the ability to understand where one's knowledge comes from and the limits inherently placed on knowledge by it's origin.
Reminds me of one of my favorite Clint Eastwood quotes, 'A man has got to know his limitations'. Trying to picture Harry Callahan using the words 'Epistemic modesty'.
Excellent points Paden. At the end of my career I hope I can count on one finger someone who goes on to get their license because of the grocery list I helped provide them.
(1) Attention to detail.
somebody who WANTS to do it- whether that be digging holes or getting his or her licence, or anything and everything in between.
have had plenty of good help who worked their butts off, grasped most (if not all) the concepts necessary to be efficient and expedient help, but for whatever reason just didn't feel it and they eventually moved on.
not sure what it is about surveying that makes this seem more important than in any of the other, previous fields in which i toiled, but it sure does seem that way. it's a hard gig to mail in.
I want a drunk (mild), felon (or on probation), with a drivers license, who has no fear of the out doors, and a thick skin, who can spell and do remedial math and likes technology.
Perseverance. Doing what it takes to produce a quality project despite the cold, the heat, the briars, the budget or any other excuse known to man.
I agree. That sounds like the person that will get it done. :good:
> Perseverance. Doing what it takes to produce a quality project despite the cold, the heat, the briars, the budget or any other excuse known to man.
:good: My new hand comes from the a construction surveying background. Their motto to get a job done was 'by brute strength and ignorance'. I'm working on turning around the ignorance part. I prefer to work smart rather than hard, but will combine the two whenever necessary. That's what got me to thinking about this.
That's a good point
A lot of them move on. The good ones that I have seen move on usually do so because of the money. That is a sad thing, but generally true.
As for myself, I've never done it for the money. I just loved the work so much I stayed at it. I raised two boys in the late '70s while running a crew making six bucks an hour. *There were lots of times I didn't have two nickels to rub together.
But it has been a rewarding career and I've loved (almost) every minute of it. So I guess another requirement for "what makes a good surveyor" would be someone who places personal satisfaction above monetary gain. (and the crowd drew hush...gasp..)
* This statement was for the benefit of all the younger folks that have never heard that particular phrase.😉
"Epistemic modesty"
[sarcasm]I disagree, adamantly, i'm not sure why but, if you give me a minute, i'll make something up. [/sarcasm]
In Alaska.........
A good shot.
Stubbornness, Anal retentive( to a small degree), honesty, artistic ability. And about 20± other things.
This profession is so much more multifaceted than others it takes a rare type to be successful and then look at how many of us there are. Not enough.
A few thing I have observed about those of us who practice this profession:
1. The average surveyor while having less formal education is often better educated than the average engineer or architect. (I have yet to find an architect who can add and subtract successfully on his/her plans)
2 The average surveyor seems to have a higher level of native intelligence (I.Q) than the average engineer, architect, lawyer or most other professions. No proof here, just an anecdotal observation.
3. The majority of us seem to have a reasonably well developed area or areas of artistic ability. IE, My father was an accomplished poet and artist with a strong, though untrained music ability. I am not quite as good at these as he was, but I have the abilities, plus an ability for prose and calligraphy. I know of several who are quite good artists or musicians or some other phase of artistic ability.
I left out sarcasm. Most of us are quite good at that.
B-)
SJ
Thirty years old with a mortgage and a child on the way. This employee will be no problem.
First, I would like someone who can read and comprehend at a 12th grade or higher level. Second, I would like someone who has the ability to develop a "feel" for numbers and can intuitively recognize when something must be wrong despite data to the contrary. Third, I would like someone who can handle people properly, whether they be the client or a nosy neighbor or a clerk in the records office or an attorney/title officer/broker/banker/etc. directly impacted by the results of the survey. Fourth, I would like someone who can be where he/she needs to be when he/she is needed, every time. Fifth, I would prefer someone who doesn't think of booze when hearing the word 'fifth'. Sixth, I would like to find someone who recognizes me for the brilliant font of knowledge that I am and not insist on questioning everything I say or do. Seventh, I would prefer to find someone who will become as passionate about the profession as I have become over the decades. Eighth, I would like someone who can navigate in this world without handy-dandy Tom Toms and such and be able to find their way home from anywhere in a dense fog.
