A little back story, the original deed dated 1952, specifically says the property line meanders with the stream centerline. The current stream is maybe 3 feet wide and very defined. A reputable surveyor in the area performed a survey in 2004, and held the stream as the property line. However when we shot the stream last week, about the first 110 feet is obviously off of the 2004 survey by about 15 feet or so, then tapers back into what we shot. Upon further investigation into Google Earth, it appears that the stream has been altered, possibly when the home was built by the developer. The question I have is: Is the stream that is out there today, the property line? Or the stream that was surveyed in 2004, the property line? This property is located in Virginia and keep in mind I would have zero knowledge that this line had changed without Google Earth.
colsurvey, post: 323741, member: 6200 wrote: ....Is the stream that is out there today, the property line?
Avulsive changes do not move the property line.
colsurvey, post: 323741, member: 6200 wrote: ....Or the stream that was surveyed in 2004, the property line?
It sounds like the 2004 survey is the best evidence of the natural course of the stream. So that would be the property line.
colsurvey, post: 323741, member: 6200 wrote: ....I would have zero knowledge that this line had changed without Google Earth.
That has no bearing. You know it, that is what is important. Besides, you have evidence of the surveys that the stream has changed course, so Google Earth isn't your only source.
Thanks Norman for the confirmation.:good:
I would concur with Norman. This is a good example of why a natural bound (creek) should be meandered with the sinuosity and at least shown on the survey. Some surveyors will argue the meanderings of a creek may imply boundary courses with their bearings and distances shown on a survey. In this case it winds up being the best evidence available as to the actual historic location of the natural bound.
colsurvey, post: 323741, member: 6200 wrote: A little back story, the original deed dated 1952, specifically says the property line meanders with the stream centerline. The current stream is maybe 3 feet wide and very defined. A reputable surveyor in the area performed a survey in 2004, and held the stream as the property line. However when we shot the stream last week, about the first 110 feet is obviously off of the 2004 survey by about 15 feet or so, then tapers back into what we shot. Upon further investigation into Google Earth, it appears that the stream has been altered, possibly when the home was built by the developer. The question I have is: Is the stream that is out there today, the property line? Or the stream that was surveyed in 2004, the property line? This property is located in Virginia and keep in mind I would have zero knowledge that this line had changed without Google Earth.
I fully agree with Norman, but I would also recommend contacting the developer and discussing things with him to ensure nthere is not some agreement between owners...
It's my understanding that if it was a man made action that caused the stream to change course, the boundary would become fixed at it's original meandered location prior to the disturbance. If I was asked to make that call I think I'd want to do some investigating to document the action to justify my conclusion.
These situations are always awkward because you are alerting at least one of potentially several owners that their title probably does not agree with what they see on the ground today. This is made more awkward when you must point out that you do not have in your hands, at the moment, absolute proof of where the true title boundaries were prior to the man-made action. You may even have some survey notes indicating the location of the sinuosity 70 years ago when the title was created, but, you have no definitive assurance as to how much that may have changed, if even a little bit, prior to the realignment by human intervention.
In a perfect world, neighbors could agree to a current alignment as documented by you and an altering of descriptions from the use of the natural monument 70 years ago to a fixed position today and into the future.
One more twist..
Your description of the creek sounds non-navigable. If that's the case the boundary probably fixed at parcel creation. While it may be easy to get an agreement to the current location, that does not honor the true title lines. Just because a survey may take extra effort doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be done...
So, if the contractor didn't own the parcels on both sides of the stream, they trespassed and excavated onto the adjoining parcel to relocate the stream? Also, theoretically, if the stream meanders back, not only to its original location but beyond that does the boundary line begin to move with the thread of the stream again or I guess it would depend on whether or not a new deed description was written removing the "centerline of stream" call...? What a title mess!
colsurvey, post: 323741, member: 6200 wrote: A little back story, the original deed dated 1952, specifically says the property line meanders with the stream centerline. The current stream is maybe 3 feet wide and very defined. A reputable surveyor in the area performed a survey in 2004, and held the stream as the property line. However when we shot the stream last week, about the first 110 feet is obviously off of the 2004 survey by about 15 feet or so, then tapers back into what we shot. Upon further investigation into Google Earth, it appears that the stream has been altered, possibly when the home was built by the developer. The question I have is: Is the stream that is out there today, the property line? Or the stream that was surveyed in 2004, the property line? This property is located in Virginia and keep in mind I would have zero knowledge that this line had changed without Google Earth.
It is correct that the general rule is man made changes don't change the boundary. But, there have been exceptions recognized based on equitable considerations. If the developer changed the course of the water, and the result would be detrimental to adjoiners under the general rule, a court may well find the boundary is remains with the stream. I would want to investigate further to find out what exactly happened, if possible.
More information is needed before coming to any conclusion. You say the stream is in a different location now than in 2004. I tend to get very skeptical about using Google Earth to document a small movement such as this unless you can see the prior channel as well as the new channel. Many questions are still to be answered.
I am assuming the stream is non-navigable for title purposes as the deeds described the boundary to the center of the stream. Although, if the stream is influenced by the tides, it may be navigable for title. The requirement is now to find how and when the stream moved. Did some are all of the movement occur naturally? It may be that the stream moved the opposite way and the contractor tried to move it back to the original place. Can the vegetation or soils be used to help document the movement? Are there eyewitnesses to the movement.
Others have recommended contacting the contractor and I agree. Is there some agreement between landowners? Probably many more questions will arise as you investigate. When you have answered all your questions then you can begin to answer the question as to where the boundary currently is.
Generally though, if a stream is moved from one location to another by man, then the boundary remains as before the location. But, just because a stream is in another location does not mean that man made all the change.
I disagree about the non-navigable stream making it be only where it was when the deed was created. The intent is written in the deed that the grantee gets to the middle of the stream. You need to find out who moved the stream and why. If they realign the stream onto 'my' property, they would be trespassing to even do it. If they move the stream onto their property, did the adjoiner agree to let them do that? They have rights to the stream.
This definitely needs some research. And the evidence of google maps alone isn't complete enough to even prove that it was man-made change. It's just another piece of evidence. "dig" deeper.
Norman nailed it. A man-caused change to a waterway is treated the same as an avulsive change, and it doesn't matter what your source of evidence is as long as it's reliable.
