There was a time when the 8ft pole was red and white painted at 1ft intervals and I remember using that plus a chain scale to check distances with a Dietzgen transit.
On some occasions we would use a Philadelphia Rod or more so a Pocket Rod to shoot stadia and not chain. Usually across steep and rugged ground and across water too deep to chain across.
It was another tool in our box.
🙂
Like some others, I started surveying in the period when EDMs were beginning to become a standard tool in the surveyor's truck, but still when many surveyors either couldn't yet afford one, or simply didn't trust them. During my 1st 4 years, I worked for the MI DOT in the warm months and as a contract instrumentman/chainman to Mich Con Gas by way of a small private engineering company in the cold months.
At the DOT, I used a transit (vernier reading theodolite for Dave) for the 1st two seasons, and finally got a Lietz theodolite that one read actual real numbers through a microscope instead of lining up and counting lines of a vernier halfway through my 3rd season. Partway through my 4th season, our office was able to get use of one of 5 EDMs owned by MDOT, which were shuttled from project office to project office around the state, and operated by the person assigned responsibility for them. I was able to look over his shoulder a few times as he set it up and made the shots, marveling at how quickly a 1500' distance over rough ground could be measured. I was even allowed to line up the scope a couple of times and push the measure button. And I was the chief on our crew. The EDM steward didn't allow many to even get close to that thing.
Oh, I'm side tracking... back to the question...
I don't recall ever checking chained distances by stadia. As others have said, for the chainment to carry the rod would be cumbersome and in most instances, unnecessary. I can see where it would be a good practice if one were returning to check angles, or to make a check distance to a backsight upon returning to a station to continue work from a previous day or to conduct other work from previously established control. Although I don't recall ever doing that either.
Also as others have said, it was typical for the chainmen to pace from one chaining station to the next, providing a rough check on each length taped. Thus the most common blunder on longer distances was the occasional dropped chain from the overall tally.
re:
> Also as others have said, it was typical for the chainmen to pace from one chaining station to the next, providing a rough check on each length taped. Thus the most common blunder on longer distances was the occasional dropped chain from the overall tally.
The lead chainman got used to pacing. If you were going 100'-intervals, you needed to stop when you were there or close otherwise the end of the tape would (could) go right past the rear-chainman. Of course the rear chainman typically watched for the end, and would holler 'chain' when it got close. It took working together. (However) If you were going out, say, 72 feet you had to pace and stop on your own, because the chain was sliding by the rear-chainman to fast to read what foot-mark was passing. If you went 10 feet to far, the rear chainman would have to tell you to come in 10'...etc. Pacing was just the norm and if you surveyed every day, you got to where you were always counting your steps sometimes even off work. (Kind of like always looking down for property corners/survey marks when off work).
Then of course if the instrument-man ever set the tripod up so that a leg was right on the line you were going to chain it was called a "Beerleg" and the I-man had to buy the beers.....but everyone on this website knows that 😉 .
(even Nate)
I will say no, if you are chaining, you have the chain and chaining pins with you not the level rod. The dyslexic error (67 vs 76 etc.) is the most frustrating one that can happen.
As I recall, the head chainman wasn't all that careful and relied on the rear chainman to tell him when to stop and pull him back when necessary.
I used to watch the end of the chain coming up and judge the speed of the head chainman and try to time it perfectly when I yelled "chain" so he'd stop with the end of the chain right by the gun.
(BTW we've had this discussion, and that 200' steel tape was a "chain." We don't need to hear anymore about THAT.)
Tom, I didn't realize you were old enough to remember this stuff. 🙂
Don
We used a 300 ft chain and paced the distances as well as use the word "chain". First thing the head chainman did was to roll out the chain to get it off of the reel, sometimes took a long hike to get the smart end back to the starting point. Very careful and went to a great effort to never kink that high priced ribbon of steel. Some could double throw the 300 footer, more the 200 footer and most the 100 footer, only did that for fun, had reels for all of them.
jud
> As I recall, the head chainman wasn't all that careful and relied on the rear chainman to tell him when to stop and pull him back when necessary.
>
I worked with a guy who used to not pace as head chainman but rely on me to holler "Chain!". I would do so when he was a step or 2 shy of 100', but he would invariably take 3 or 4 more steps after I called out and then proceed to chew me out for not calling chain at the right time. It wasn't that he was moving all that fast, but his reaction time was such that it must have taken him a step to realize that he heard something, another to realize it was directed toward him, a third to comprehend it's meaning, and a 4th to actually stop.
After a few times of working with him, I got to learn to call chain with about 15' to go. That usually put him at a point to just pull it up tight to be at distance.
Any decent head chainman I've known has made a habit of pacing.
You guys are just Chain of...
this brings to mind a song ;-):
(credit Dan McCabe for posting this in a thread some years ago)
[flash width=420 height=315] http://www.youtube.com/v/gGAiW5dOnKo?version=3&hl=en_US [/flash]
You guys are just Chain of...
For some reason that video is not coming up on my iPad. I just hope, for your sake, that it's not "Chain of Fools."
I have a feeling it is, though 🙂
Don
Is chaining a lost art, Jud?
I think it is is. We were good because we did it all day long, every day.
The rear chainman steady as a tree, even under the gun, and holding his plumb bob over the point; the head chainman pulling with just the right pressure and sliding his string along hundredths just exactly right.
Dang, we WERE good.
At something that's no longer important 🙁
Don
You guys are just Chain of...
Hey I put the winky on there so it should be OK ;-).
I Did A Few Transit Stadia Surveys In The 60's
My father owned and developed land. He would reconn and then we would lay out traverse and clear line. To get an idea where we were and where we were going we would use stadia. He had (I have) a 1' Kegelman Brothers transit. My dad made range poles from the tent poles of the tent that went with me to the 1960 BSA Jamboree. He painted red and white 1' stripes. He bought a 2 section Philadelphia rod and paid extra for 2 additional rod targets. We did some rather precise long distance stadia with that setup. After we had cleared line he would hire a survey crew to do the final survey. He could get a low survey price that way. The largest parcel was 400 acres we did the perimeter on with a traverse through the middle of an adjacent 400 acre parcel to get to their front control.
I then did stadia for topo mapping of projects.
Paul in PA
Is chaining a lost art, Jud?
I think it’s still important for what we learned from doing it.
I started chaining in ’61, on a summer job when still in high school, and continued off and on for a little over 20 years. The first EDM I used, in 1975, didn’t mount on the gun. You had to unsnap the instrument from the tribrach and snap on the EDM, which was about the size of a microwave oven. Of course that took extra time, so shorter distances continued to be chained.
We almost never used a 200-ft. chain. It’s very difficult to get accurate distances with a 200-footer except on a smooth level surface like a roadway. Plumbing the 100-ft. chain was routine even on level ground, since there would generally be rocks, weeds, grass, or brush along the line.
There were no chain reels in use at the first few places I worked. The prevailing opinion was that chain reels were only used by sissies. On one county road crew, we would drag the 100-ft. chain out the window of the truck on the gravel road if we were moving half a mile or so. It saved doing up the chain, and also did a pretty good job of cleaning the rust off it. Sometimes we’d drag it an extra mile or so just to clean it. At the end of the day we would always wipe off the chain with a rag when doing it up, and sometimes oil it as well.
It took some practice to handle a loose 100-ft. chain when chaining shorter distances, especially in the brush. You had to plan ahead so the unused trailing end didn’t get looped around something, or worse yet, kinked. In addition to hollering “Chain!” it was also the rear chainman’s job to yell “Kink!” if a kink appeared, so the head chainman could stop. If one or the other of the chainmen didn’t react quickly enough, the chain could break. Then you’d have to splice it with a ready-made repair sleeve that was soldered on by heating it with a match, while listening to curses from the party chief. The chain would never be quite as accurate after being spliced, and of course the splicing took time.
In the 1960’s we almost never used a hand level when plumbing. For ordinary work the chain was leveled by eye. If greater precision was needed and a hand level wasn’t available, it was possible to estimate the level position and then take two or three extra measurements, raising or lowering one end of the chain each time. The level position was the one that got you the furthest ahead on line. Clip-on chain grips, which allowed you to keep better hold of the middle of the chain, were nice to have but also easy to lose.
I don’t remember ever using stadia to check a chained distance, although I shot plenty of stadia topo with T-1’s and T-16’s (we did use cos^2 to adjust the horizontal distance, or rather sin^2 of the zenith angle). And I don’t remember much trouble with transposed or mis-read foot numbers. It was possible to lose track of the 100’s when chaining longer distances. And there were “cut” chains with which you had to subtract the decimal foot from the even feet rather than adding it, creating an extra chance for error.
Of course the veteran surveyors on the forum know all this, and can skip over it.
I think chaining is a lost art, or nearly. But it was a daily drill from which generations of surveyors learned patience, care, and unceasing attention to detail. Those of us who did it are better for it.
At about 10 or so feet to go I learned to say "Coming up....CHAIN!" to slow the head chainman down before he got to the end of the tape. The worse was working with someone that was not pacing their distance - they'd overshoot and then you'd have to pull them back. Or stop short, turn and look at you and you'd have to yell "12 MORE FEET dummy". I'm sure that all of us who started out chaining STILL pace mowing the yard, in the grocery store, et cetera. I'll catch myself counting steps walking from the car in a parking lot and think what the hell am I doing that for?
I Did A Few Transit Stadia Surveys In The 60's
We did not use stadia to check our measurements.
We did double chain,and the 2 totals better be close to the same.
Ice
Mike
Me too (counting paces that is).
Seems like ANYTIME that I am outside, I am subconsciously counting my paces (and keeping the 100 ft. station count on my fingers). Old habits are hard to break, but then again, I still use pacing in the field quite often.
Loyal