"magnetically detecting" boys-
one corner was a piece of scrap metal, and one other was quiet/nothing..... that was just preliminary. tomorrow we'll set up some Traffic control and dig.
> "magnetically detecting" boys-
> one corner was a piece of scrap metal, and one other was quiet/nothing..... that was just preliminary. tomorrow we'll set up some Traffic control and dig.
I cannot believe that you are going to destroy important evidence as you say you intend to. That Montana surveyor who thought he heard a squeal from the Schonstedt as he passed it over the corner now will never be able to locate it again once you've dug the whole works up.
This is terrible! You will have destroyed the evidence and now boundaries relied upon by landowners will become unsettled! Turn back before it's too late.
Write a few articles in one of the surveying mags explaining how the most professional option is to use Schonstedt methods in your retracement work instead of costing the taxpayers tens of dollars* in the future to patch potholes resulting from needless digging.
*Your mileage may vary. Offer void where prohibited by law.
costing the taxpayers tens of dollars
Nice.
My nod to the mag detected folks is this: On hard surfacing, if the ties (PLSSia) match the mag reading/nail why dig? If there's a real suspicion that monkey biz is going on, go ahead an make a pothole. If yer trying to prove the other guy is 0.12531 ft off go survey somewhere far far from me.
Steve
>
> My nod to the mag detected folks is this: On hard surfacing, if the ties (PLSSia) match the mag reading/nail why dig?
One corner was scrap metal the other was nothing. If you don't dig, why survey?:-S
if you don't dig, you are not survyeying.
> >
> > My nod to the mag detected folks is this: On hard surfacing, if the ties (PLSSia) match the mag reading/nail why dig?
>
> One corner was scrap metal the other was nothing. If you don't dig, why survey?:-S
:good:
Drop the hammer!!!! Or digging bar, rotohammer demo tool and shovel. Have fun!
In some areas you will find:
1901 Set Stone, Ties: x, y, z etc.
1925 Set Hub over Stone, Ties: x, y, z etc.
1945 Set 1/2 IP, Ties: x, y, z etc.*
1979 Fd IP and set IP in new paving over existing, Ties: x, y, z etc.
1990 Set PK nail after resurfacing, Ties: x, y, z etc.*
2000 FD PK nail
2002 FD MAG nail*
2009 Set spike from ties, Ties: x, y, z etc.
In 2013 some surveyor cites each * as a reason to dig a hole in pavement. In 1945 the surveyor didn't record how/why he set IP, and in 1990 the surveyor failed to document how he set the new nail, then in 2002 someone called it a MAG nail of all things.
Nevermind all the half mile distances agree within 1.1' from 1901 to today. Nevermind all the halfmile distances since 1979 agree withing 0.5', and so do the ties, and so does the mag reading and so does the spike if it's there.
There is a time I don't dig. Hardsurface roads without good reason. I was once told "some people look for the top of the monument, some look for the bottom."
I have to have a better reason than I don't like the guy to look for the bottom.
Edit: Rank probably has valid reasons to dig, I'm just saying I've got to be reasonably sure of what and where I am looking prior to digging in pavments. Also, that it will be a difference maker.
Steve
Looked at one today I will not dig
It's on the centerline of a concrete street. It is a 1/2" bar six inches long set by a reputable surveyor about 10 years ago during the resurfacing project. I'm not going to try to pull it out to make sure it is six inches long.
There are times when I will not dig. It's fairly rare in my world, but, there are times when things fit very well and there really is nothing to be gained.
What is more irritating is finding a nice new bar and cap in a monument box about three to six inches from where everything from the past says it used to be. The cap isn't big enough for me to put a dimple where the true corner is supposed to be.
Looked at one today I will not dig
>... there are times when things fit very well and there really is nothing to be gained.
Well put.
>The cap isn't big enough for me to put a dimple where the true corner is supposed to be.
Love them dimples!
Steve
Dimples!!!!!!
I have seen several threads keeping track of users that post most frequently. I might have to start counting the threads on which you try to rekindle the dimple conversation. 😉 Just kidding of course.
Dimples!!!!!!
the Swiss Miss' dimples are the only ones in the right place(s)!
(edit: pluralized as more properly fits the situation ...)
Looked at one today I will not dig
I'm unclear on your post regarding the monument. Did you find evidence of the monument set 10 years ago- and by evidence, I don't mean snoopy going "weeer, weeer".
No one is suggesting that if you locate a surveyor's cap, you need to dig it up to ensure, it's the length reported in the legend.
> costing the taxpayers tens of dollars
>
> Nice.
>
> My nod to the mag detected folks is this: On hard surfacing, if the ties (PLSSia) match the mag reading/nail why dig? If there's a real suspicion that monkey biz is going on, go ahead an make a pothole. If yer trying to prove the other guy is 0.12531 ft off go survey somewhere far far from me.
>
> Steve
I agree. Everybody locates a "sound shot" once in a while.
Looked at one today I will not dig
What I actually found is a little mag nail even with the concrete surface in the center of the roughly 5/8" wide expansion joint that fits the references provided 10 years ago by the fellow who set the 1/2" iron bar. I'm not even going to pull the mag nail to make sure it is directly over the center of the 1/2" iron bar. The bar was supposed to be 0.95 south of the center of the crossing expansion joint, which is precisely the same as the little mag nail.
The key here is that the guy 10 years ago set his bar to replace a pipe that was probably torn out during complete reconstruction of the street. I say probably. Maybe its still there. I'm pretty sure the "stake and pits" set in about 1865 was destroyed about 1873 or so.
As far as I'm concerned that little mag nail is good as gold.
Looked at one today I will not dig
that's fine - what are you going to say you found? What would you say you found if the nail wasn't there?
some pics-
Here's what we found at one location- the record is-
1890 stone with x
1973 brass markers set in concrete (COS 282)
1982 fnd. 2" brass cap
1985 Set Brass cap in concrete over previously set brass cap as shown on COS 282
2002 found 2" brass cap
2005- pms overlay over the existing PCCP ( unknown origin)
2006 magnetically located 2" brass cap
5/2013 magnetically located 2" brass cap
9/2013 at the record position +/- 0.3' faint magnetic signal +/- 0.6' west of this is a chipped out hole 2 inches in diameter 3" deep - no signal.
we dig thru the pms to the top of the concrete -hole 1' diameter- no evidence of brass cap- slight mag signal - concrete surface looks "roughened" - dig partially thru pccp- and find this-
it's some kind of electrical fitting.
going all the way thru the pccp- we found non-metallic electrical conduit with the rotted remains of a wooden stake just under the concrete.
expanded the hole in the pms to the top of the concrete to about 24" dia. no sign of the brass cap- excavated a hole 18" diameter 30" deep- no evidence found. Will place a monument box and mon at the position shown on the 1985 survey.
at anothor magnetically located position- this one for a 2" aluminum cap we found this-
in case your wondering - these are street intersections in the commercial area of town- and one would think that Wohl v City of Missoula would be a pretty good wake-up call.
Looked at one today I will not dig
Then I would have found the bar beneath the nail. There is no reason for it to be gone. The only other alternative is that the reputable surveyor lied and never set the short bar that I believe is directly below the little mag nail. The ties put it where the nail was found. If there had been no nail, and then upon further digging in the expansion joint I could not find the iron bar of record, then I would have used the exact same location as the corner and would have placed a short bar exactly in the same spot as where I found the nail. There is no reason to pull the nail.
Probably 99 times out of a hundred I would dig to be absolutely certain the cause of the signal is the last monument of record. The exception normally being like this case where the references are spot on the spot and the medium is concrete or similar.
some pics-
I've never got a brass cap to sing in the first place. Like you, I would have dug through the overlay in search of something in the concrete surface. Unlike you, I would not be tearing out concrete road bed. Not going to happen. I would exhaust every other relevant tie to the location and arrive at a solution.
Looked at one today I will not dig
> What is more irritating is finding a nice new bar and cap in a monument box about three to six inches from where .....
Inches??! I thought there were only 2 professions that used inches. 😉
