We started a project today where the client had the simple request that we find his boundaries for him.?ÿ He didn't go into any stories as to why, and I didn't ask.?ÿ We start off searching for the 3/4" iron pipes that were set about 50 years ago when the subdivision was created.?ÿ One of those bizarre kind of layouts with curves of all sorts and lots that look like a jigsaw puzzle designer was involved.?ÿ Along the front line of the client's lot is one of those bastard circumstances where the lot corner falls on a rare, but short, straight stretch, but 6.49 feet to the west is the point of curvature starting what appears to be a spiral curve for the next 200 feet or so.?ÿ We were aware of some work by another company a couple of years back who found a few lot corners, PCs and PTs in this area.
We began our search in the next block where two pipes had been found by the other firm and were easy to find today.?ÿ That gave us a search point for our southeast corner, which fell under a lovely mess of 20-feet tall cedar trees.?ÿ Apparently the nosey neighbor had been watching us because he was on us within two minutes of showing up at one of the corners common to both the client and him.?ÿ We promptly learned that the client is the neighborhood bully.?ÿ We also learned the reason we were called out was because the client wants to turn most of that portion of his lawn into a concrete parking area for his gigantic motor home.?ÿ Mr. Nosey tells us the stated plan is to pour concrete right up to the property line despite there being a platted 15-foot utility easement centered on the property line.?ÿ Mr. Nosey believes there should be nothing but grass within the limits of the easement.?ÿ As we locate the pipe we were seeking, I pointed out to Mr. Nosey that his cedar trees are all planted within the easement, so maybe the City should ask him to remove them if it the easement area should all be grass.?ÿ He decided he needed to go back in house.
About 15 minutes later we had located the neighbor's boundary line common to the client and the owner directly behind the client.?ÿ Turns out Mr. Nosey has a stone fountain about 10 feet in diameter that has about seven feet within the easement area, plus his wood pile is on the client, plus his privacy fence runs about eight feet over into the neighbor behind the client, plus he has other improvements directly inside the fence which are both on the neighbor and all over the utility easement, plus at the triplepoint of his lot, the client's lot and the other neighbor's lot the utility easement jumps an additional five feet into his lot for 15 feet.?ÿ Don't tease the bear is my motto.?ÿ That sucker came out in hopes of running us off and all he is going to get is bad news.?ÿ Facts are facts and original pipes are original pipes.
I've had the opposite also.?ÿ The client believes that the adjoiner has encroachments onto his property.?ÿ Find the corners, check all measurements, and put stakes up the common line.?ÿ OOOPS!!! The client is the one encroaching and now has to go to the neighbor, hat in hand, to apologize and try to work things out.?ÿ He didn't like it but, as you say, facts are facts.?ÿ Thank heavens our job is to find the truth and not just what the client wants.
Andy
I dig the story but do not see how staying inside the house would have helped them unless it was their interactions with the client that triggered the survey in the first place.
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If there had been no conversation with Mr. Nosey we wouldn't have been quite so interested in what was going on with his property.?ÿ Our survey procedure did not change one bit.?ÿ But, now I have a certain incentive to alert our current client and the neighbor behind him to what is going on.?ÿ Being aggressive towards us is never well received no matter who the party is that is behaving in that manner.
Still scratching my head on the spiral subdivision curve. Is that a thing there? Or do they abut a state highway or railroad ROW?
I don't recall ever seeing one strictly connected to a platted subdivision.?ÿ
I have a real soft spot in my heart for surveying boundary and I miss it when I work heavy civil, but I do not miss the nosey nellies, nimby's or kooks. I occasionally miss the random encounters with reasonable people who have something interesting or friendly to break up the day though.?ÿ
A favorite yelled at me "My real-estate agent told me that that land would never be developed!".?ÿ
I don't usually have a problem with nosy adjoiners.?ÿ I mean if it's their boundary too I believe they have a vested interest in someone surveying along their boundary.?ÿ Encounters with neighbors is usually a bright spot in MY day anyways.?ÿ I enjoy the social interaction although it can become tricky at times.
What I have found over the years is that the party that requested and is paying for the survey is usually the party that is unsure of the boundary's location.?ÿ And I always let a client know there is a chance the reality of the situation may be contrary to their beliefs.
I forgot to mention that Mr. Nosey has only owned his property for about five years.?ÿ He did not plant the cedar trees and probably did not build the privacy fence that wanders into the other neighbor's property.?ÿ He may or may not have constructed the fountain and certain other small items.?ÿ However, his attitude towards us was not pleasant.?ÿ He even had the foolish thought that the easement area that was on our client's lot was something that he could come over and use for his own purposes, which I assured him was not allowed and if such actions were allowed then the client would have the same right to go over and do something on the part of Mr Nosey's lot subject to the same easement.
While researching for the project I discovered Mr Nosey had purchased his lot from an individual with whom I am familiar.?ÿ I doubt that the previous owner ever lived there, though, as his mansion is a couple hundred feet to the northeast of this common house.?ÿ Many years ago I did a survey of an adjoiner to the "mansion" tract and discovered a similar lack of respect for land boundaries there.?ÿ The adjoiner for whom we were working at that time blamed the issue on cultural differences between our country and the home country of the offending neighbor.?ÿ Her comment was along the lines that someone who grew up in the middle of a desert can't possibly understand boundary lines.?ÿ I thought the comment was rather crass, so that is probably why it has stuck in my memory for so long.
Being interested in location is to be expected and to some extent encouraged, the nosy aspect that gets me is people getting in my face about whether or not the owner is going to develop the land.?ÿ
It may not actually be a spiral, but it is not a simple circular curve.?ÿ That much is certain.?ÿ I am going to spend far too much time on trying to figure out how to reset two corners that front the street.
If it makes anyone feel better, the designer of the subdivision was first licensed as an engineer, then later added the survey license when the State licensing law was changed. (As did I.)?ÿ His math is always impeccable.?ÿ Sometimes it takes some extra effort to decipher, but, in the end, it will be spot on.
...A favorite yelled at me "My real-estate agent told me that that land would never be developed!".?ÿ
My favorite "real estate agent story" goes something like this:
Developer plats area adjacent to golf course with a tidy little row of townhouses.?ÿ The rear of the six or seven units had a wonderful view of the course some 100 yards away.?ÿ One owner had spent a bit of time dressing up around some trees in that area that was about 100' from his back patio door.?ÿ He had built some retainers and steps with landscape timbers and had his little chimenea down there with some lawn furniture.?ÿ A couple of large trees provided some nice shade.?ÿ Trouble was it was all sitting smack dab in the middle of the proposed phase 2 of the townhouses.
We showed up sticking sticks in the ground for the grading contractor.?ÿ This owner raised holy hell when he realized his property ended 15' outside of his patio door.?ÿ His Shangra La was eventually pushed into a pile with a D7.?ÿ When it was all said he had no view of the golf course..just a view of the back side of his neighbor's townhouse that looked just like his.
His famous lament:?ÿ "They told me they would never build anything there!"?ÿ?ÿ
Caveat emptor applies to real estate too.?ÿ
As I was digging up the second pipe of my search in a very nicely kept yard I heard a man's voice asking, "Are you going to plant a tree there?"
My response was, "I sure hope not because this ground is so dry and hard I can barely make a dent in it."
We laughed a bit and then he asked what I was really doing.?ÿ About 20 seconds into my explanation he lost all interest.?ÿ He didn't even really care that I was locating one of his property corners.
"hot enough for ya?"
"you digging for gold?
"you digging your grave?". That one scared me.
"you lost your dog?". When using a measuring wheel.
Reminds me of a quote: "Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro.
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i don??t know if this helps but could it be a compound horizontal curve? Just curious seeing as the spiral didn??t pan out?ÿ
And I always let a client know there is a chance the reality of the situation may be contrary to their beliefs.
*sigh*
Sometimes, I just want a business card that says that.
It's like they have read "think and grow rich", and they began that day to "grow" their property, one act of "taking", at a time.
With a shrub shrub here, and a concrete wall there, and a garage here, and a mow mow there.... (!)
Here, let's fence that too, and that's my tree too!
I could write a children's book, with pictures, chock full of the lies I've heard. Surveyors would love it!
🙂
Thank you,
Nate
The agency here says you can't have anything in a utility easement except maybe grass, small plants, no trees, no movable sheds. I tend to think they are overstepping their authority but they don't have to issue a permit to a developer wanting to use an easement occupied by forbidden items. Once the inspector finals the project, however, then what's to stop you from doing whatever you want as long as it doesn't interfere with the utilities? Utility easements are in fact occupied by forbidden items all over the city/county because they don't check those things unless there is a project.
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Ding ding ding ding.?ÿ Compound horizontal curves.?ÿ Had to search hard around the plat to find the curve data for each stretch.?ÿ Had to get a pdf of the plat and blow it up big time to see certain details.?ÿ Trying to work with photos and my little smartphone screen wasn't getting it done.
Psst.?ÿ Don't tell the Register of Deeds about the photos.
can I ask a question... how often is it that a compound curve actually pays off for either a residential subdivision or land development? I mean short of it maybe helping adjust where the tangent/straight run of a street??s R/W might fall for a desired lot depth against say the outer boundary I can??t see it really helping much...?
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now on highways with direction & speed variations I can see that being a totally different story at interchanges & ramps. but subdivisions?
