Surveyor->Landman career advice

I will take a stab at this one. I know lots of landmen. Some are really good at what they do and many have no idea what they are doing. You would be surprised how many so called landmen came into the industry from something completely different and have no idea what they are doing. I talking people that have worked there while life in restraunts getting hired for land an jobs and things like that.

You likely have an advantage because you know your way around the courthouse. Other than that you need good people skills. You will be researching stuff at the courthouse and then calling on and meeting with people and persuading them to sign the leases. It isn't rocket science but lots of people lack the self motivation to do it. Part of the reason the pay is good is there is a lot of travel involved.

Like buzzards to road kill. They will be everywhere in the clerks office one week and then they are gone until the exploration moves to a new area or the price of oil goes up. Mostly a go-fer research person in my opinion.

Well, at least I now know what a Landman is. I suppose its a regional vocational naming for a title officer. Sounds a little like a land history researcher too.

" Mostly a go-fer research person in my opinion."

I would have to agree in many cases. There are always those landmen who know what they are doing and actually get the job done. I saw many others in the last East Texas gas play, that seemed only to be around to run interference. I saw one young man across the table from where I was working one day, whose sole job was to have Book M of the reverse index open to keep others from using it. It didn't bother me until I needed it. I went about my business looking up other deeds for about 30 minutes while watching him not turn a page or write a single thing down. When I asked him to use it, he first refused, but after some further persuasion, he agreed to let me "borrow it" as long as I would return it to him. I saw another group of three, sitting in line while rotating through the 20 minute computer time limit, so that they could tie up a computer terminal so that the main landman could use it when he needed to. I would always get tickled to see them scramble to cover up every shred of their work when I came near them to get a book or a place to work. Oftentimes when I went to retrieve a book or put one back, I would see them stealing glances of my work to see what I was working on. Many of them knew I was a surveyor and knew I didn't have anything to steal. Many times, I would turn my work over when I left or would purposely leave out some useless ownership map with a big red line outlining a tract, just to pique their curiosity.

> " Mostly a go-fer research person in my opinion."
>
> I would have to agree in many cases. There are always those landmen who know what they are doing and actually get the job done. I saw many others in the last East Texas gas play, that seemed only to be around to run interference. I saw one young man across the table from where I was working one day, whose sole job was to have Book M of the reverse index open to keep others from using it. It didn't bother me until I needed it. I went about my business looking up other deeds for about 30 minutes while watching him not turn a page or write a single thing down. When I asked him to use it, he first refused, but after some further persuasion, he agreed to let me "borrow it" as long as I would return it to him. I saw another group of three, sitting in line while rotating through the 20 minute computer time limit, so that they could tie up a computer terminal so that the main landman could use it when he needed to. I would always get tickled to see them scramble to cover up every shred of their work when I came near them to get a book or a place to work. Oftentimes when I went to retrieve a book or put one back, I would see them stealing glances of my work to see what I was working on. Many of them knew I was a surveyor and knew I didn't have anything to steal. Many times, I would turn my work over when I left or would purposely leave out some useless ownership map with a big red line outlining a tract, just to pique their curiosity.

Very Interesting. Since there isn't much Mineral exploration out here in the Pac NW I never see or hear of this kind of thing. I guess it definitely adds a little frustration and comedy to ones research days if the courthouse is involved. Im lucky in that I can get most everything I need from the Title company or online research. Its been a while since I've had to go to a courthouse.

I guess you can't edit messages? I typed that last one on my phone and auto correct screwed it all up. Very hard to read and doesn't even make sense.

Anyway to add to what I was saying some landmen are good. I have a friend that has been in that line of work for about 10 years. I am sure he pulls in six figures. He is good at what he does and has quite a few people working under him.

I have seen some of the dumbest people on earth be landmen. No kidding when I was in college and people could not hack their majors they switched to petroleum land management. I met some of these folks and and all I can say is wow.

There are also a lot of people that get into being a landmen that have no background whatsoever in that field or anything related to it. I have seen landmen cut loose to do their thing that were working in a restaurant the week before. Car salesmen? You are a landman now. You used to bag groceries? - you too can be a landman. I guess the ones that really stink at it weed them selves out over time but I have had to work behind some of their mistakes before and what a nightmare it can be.

For someone who is sharp and a self starter you can make a lot of money at.

Landman ??

Is this what some call an abstractor?
Otherwise, what the hell is a "landman"?

Landman ??

Around here the term "Landman" generally refers to folks that chase the mineral leases down for folks. Some can be merely 'records gophers' and some can actually have an interest in the leasing negotiations.

We have 2 permanent "landmen" on staff here, and they do NO mineral interests whatsoever. Right-of-way negotiations and acquisition only, and they're the best. And they prefer the term "landman" over "right-of-way" agent.

Not sure where you're going to be working, but I work with a lot of landmen working with pipelines.

What most people have described in this thread, we call "title agents." They specialize in getting the vesting documents and Limited Title Certificates so that we may deed plot the description, fit it to found monuments, and plat an easement across it for the actual "landmen" to take to the owner.

Landmen deal with the owners and are more of a liaison between the gas company, survey, and property owners. They are the ones offering the money and negotiating placement of the lines, rates, etc.

I, like many, know good landmen (and title agents) as well as awful ones. The good ones can usually do both. Your experience with survey and tracing chain of title will help a lot and give some credence to what you say to both owners as well as the surveying company. I wish we had anyone with survey knowledge in the company we have been paired with on this last job.

It comes with great pay because you're usually on a day rate that has been exploding lately due to more companies and work being in play. I work for a big firm, and we even though about getting into that side of the business, but decided against it. A great benefit is you can charge for a day by making 2 phone calls and "riding the line" which usually entails taking an owner to lunch on the company's dime. Most work as contract workers so you will be paying your own taxes so remember that if you take the job. I thought about doing it 2 years ago when I was offered a job, but I didn't have my license yet and wanted to work towards that.

Early in my career I had an opportunity to work for a title company and what would eventually have become a title examiner position. Back then title companies actually did something. Good money, but I wanted to be a surveyor.

I do have some regrets because the experience would have proven invaluable over the years. At my age if given the same opportunity now I'd jump at it. So it all depends on your goals

good luck

Thanks to everyone for the insights and please keep them coming. The potential position is as Logan Park describes: Landmen deal with the owners and are more of a liaison between the gas company, survey, and property owners. They are the ones offering the money and negotiating placement of the lines, rates, etc.

So I need to be honest with myself about my temperament, negotiating ability, willingness to play the game, etc. My friends tell me that their hours as a Landman are split evenly between "real work" and "playing the game", which is basically kissing @ss. And I have an extremely low tolerance for that kind of crap.

The main reason I didn't take the job was kind of due to my temperament along with needing experience to take my PLS tests.

I like working when what happens depends on me and I have liability, both good and bad. When you're a landman, ROW agent, whatever, your entire job depends on what kind of mood the landowner is in when you contact them. I just couldn't do it. "Playing the game" is a very real thing. We have agents come in multiple times a week saying "look, I know we can't do anything, but I told Mr. Soandso I would ask if we could move to the fence line ...blahblahblah..." They're always trying to offer less money per foot until they run into someone uncooperative. I wouldn't mind the job one day, but parts of it look like a pure nightmare because your hands are tied, and everyone is looking at you to just get the job done.

>.....I have seen landmen cut loose to do their thing that were working in a restaurant the week before. Car salesmen? You are a landman now. You used to bag groceries? - you too can be a landman.

That sounds A LOT like the "Site Acquisition Specialists" (Site Acq's for short) in the cell tower business/industry in the early 2000's. They were running around crazy in all the courthouses pulling deeds and plats, but sometimes for the wrong properties.

I was unlicensed then and went to work for a large international tower company as a Site Development Specialist (I contracted and arranged to get the wire utilities to the site and hooked up) and the stuff that they were doing was ridiculous. Outrageous contracts for cell towers that were in awful or worthless reception areas. They had no idea what an RF engineer was. I saw millions upon millions of dollars spent for nothing. I got more and more responsibility thrown at me because I found ways to get it done. I survived the first and second round of layoffs, but not the third. It was fun while it lasted, but I was grossly underpaid for the crap that I had to deal with.

You may be the designee to tell property owners (that don't own gas rights) that your big client is going to plop a well down on their property at the minimum setback from their house or that they are going to rum a 12" gas main through their field. Also, think twice about subcontracting or carry errors and omissions. Title mistakes can be a big problem.