Survey Pro Dependent Points

Spectra Precision Survey Office will let you create a .survey file from other formats. $500 for the Basic module serves the purpose of data management and conversion similar to Foresight DXM.

Thanks. I'm not having a problem converting, downloading and uploading data. My problem is the DC not letting me overwrite some existing points already in the DC after I have translated and rotated the original points. The dependent points it will not let me overwrite are usually my control points.

Annoying, isn't it? My work around is to start a new coordinate file in the DC and import the points as an ASCII file, giving the file a date extension. Strips the points of their dependent relationships. If things go south, I have the original file to go back to. The '.backup' file SP generates isn't always reliable.

> Running Survey Pro 5.4. When doing surveys based on assumed coord. (5000 5000) I generally do the field work, upload coords onto PC, do what ever calcs, translation, rotation I need to do. Then when I want to reload the coord file back to the DC it tells me that some points are dependent points and can't be overwritten. These are usually my traverse points. I ran an older version of Survey Pro and it would let me overwrite all the points. This is very annoying. Does anyone know of a setting that will let me upload and overwrite the existing points?

I'm not that clear on Survey Pro so this information may not translate.

In SurvCE, there is a setting that basically let's you "protect" your control points This sounds similar in Survey Pro. How many traverse points are there? Can you edit them? I have basically not been using a DC for the past 2 years, but deal with them daily, if that makes sense. This may be completely incorrect and worthless.

Take that with a pound of salt, a grain isn't going to cover this comment. 😛

I overwrite the job in the DC and import my coordinates. Gets rid of the dependant points.

Very Annoying! I usually just delete the original file from the DC and upload the new adjusted file, but I also have to delete the raw data file and start over with a new one when I return to the site. I guess I could rename the new raw data file with the date as you suggest.

Gets rid of the raw data as well since it's included in the .survey file and not separate like the old .raw files TDS SP generated. Not good. I talked about this issue with Spectra a few years ago and they didn't have any good solutions. As a general rule, I just don't overwrite. The date extension links the file to the field notes where I typically detail what was done.

The dependencies are required to maintain the integrity of the raw data. Rotate/Translate can be done on the controller via the new Fix Station Setup in the adjust menu. This was added in version 5.5. The raw data is now fundamentally a part of the point data. Therefor rotation either has to happen via the adjust menu in the controller or imported into a new job where there is no raw data present.

This bothers me to no end. I understand that the software designers are trying to make the software idiot proof, but it just makes trouble for a lot of people. I am of a mind that my software should do absolutely anything I ask it to do. Warnings are fine, but once I confirm my intentions, it should do it. There may be times when I actually want to overwrite that traverse point. There may be times when I want to enter a rod height over 99 feet. There may be times when I want to enter "0" for my offset. The fact that it's unorthodox doesn't mean it's unintentional.

Perhaps the software could include a code given to the purchaser that unlocks the safety features. This would give the purchaser the ability to do what he wants with the software, but he could also keep the features in place if he doesn't want to allow his employees to have that freedom.

YUP. another one of the features of 5.xxx that drives me absolutely insane. to the OP i have been in contact with spectra many times with no result. you cant even delete dependant points on the data collector which makes NO sense to me. it should be able to record that in the raw data just like it happened. when you do manage to delete a point or overwrite it it STAYS in the point menu. why do i care!?!?? now i have multiple points with the same number. also can not extract raw data separately as a file any more. i love the new features but the extra little annoyances now make it a wash. wait until you try and open a 5.5 job in a 5.4 data collector they are not backwards compatible. sure forces you to upgrade fast!

like the above poster when i pay 7000$ for a fully loaded ranger with survey pro it should do whatever i tell it.

end rant

It's one of the many frustrating aspects of this software thinking it's smarter than I am and trying to lead me around by the nose.

This is my short rant. I have bent many a comrade's ear at length about the list of frustrations. There are many good features, of course, but these frustrations quickly come to the forefront.

OK.... I too have a problem with dependent points....

If I make an error entering the data in cogo and don't realize until ive finished..... I CANT CHANGE IT......uuuhhhgggg

Also, I often start mt travers by going point and direction from a calculated point...

Does anyone know if it is possible to turn off the dependent point feature.?????

I have another question about using the new version of Survey Pro with my Robotic system.... When traversing I chose a "fixed Back-sight" using a std -30mm OS Prism.... When moved to my side leg and wanted to use the remote sight (the 360 deg Prism and rover) it would NOT change back

I had to Sight on an Azimuth and then Create and store a new point.... AFTER that it allowed me to change to a remote BS???

Anyone experience anything similar????

Between this key "feature" and every update not offering backwards compatability, Survey Pro went from being one of the best programs to one of my most hated. Why the HELL do I have to keep a point I just used to coco another point in? When I delete a point I really and truly want it gone. Completely.

Trash survey program. Fix these annoyances, no one likes them.

If you can think of anything else you actually like about the newer versions of Survey Pro let the company know, I'm sure they'll find a way to screw them up for the next upgrade.

My guess - and this is just a guess - is that when Trimble bought out TDS they decided that, rather than having two sets of programmers developing two Windows CE applications independently, they'd merge some of the base source code between Survey Pro and Trimble Survey Controller/Access/General Survey. I say that because Survey Controller has the same extremely obnoxious, intrusive and anti-productive behavior where you can't delete or overwrite intermediate points and where if you manually adjust a point the data collector automatically adjusts a number of associated points, without clearly telling you which points it decided to move and which points it did not move.

It's lots of fun when you're out staking construction and you discover that the data collector has automatically adjusted horizontal and vertical locations for the proposed points you're staking, a little while after you've already put in all the stakes and marked cuts and fills on the laths. At least I noticed before I left the site.

I realize that this could be a useful feature under some circumstances, but it seems like a fairly easy thing for the programmers to fix; if only they'd add a switch to turn off the updating of dependent points altogether in Settings, I could work the way I used to, and if you do want the automatic updating and all that hi-tech rubbish you could leave that switch turned on.

Sure, there are work-arounds, but in order to do very simple things that I used to do all the time in the field in ten seconds flat, I have to export this and that, create all-new files, re-import this and that, and this can take ten or fifteen minutes, with the additional problem that I can't be nearly as confident that the data in the file hasn't been mysteriously screwed with, so later in the office I have to waste yet more time double-checking everything.

Could be worse! You ever do basic survey drawing and worksheet generation in AutoCAD Civil 3D? It's like replacing the car you commute to work and the grocery store in with a nuclear-powered helicopter. It can do fantastic, amazing things your boring dumb car could never do, such as fly over Mount Everest carrying an elephant in a sling, but it does somewhat complicate your commute to work and the grocery store.

I absolutely despise dependent points. Since they implemented this garbage in version 5 I've wanted the exact same thing, a simple way to turn on and turn off the feature.

I've resorted to just uploading the coords, rotating and translating them, then re-downloading back into the DC as xxxx-rotated. Its;'t the only method that I found that "works".

I have worked with limited platforms... computers that only held 250 coords, and the like.
So, I have this to say. More of a "Throw it in the discussion".

Javad SEPARATES the field shots, (calls them "Survey Points") and "Design Points".
You cannot modify Survey Points. You can modify Design Points. (Rotate, Translate, scale, Erase, etc.)
However, it has a built in UCS. User Coordinate System.
You can set up to (I think it's 10) pages, to USER COORDINATE SYSTEMS. One might be "The old mineshaft survey", and another might be another survey set to true north, and local coords. If you shoot on another surveyor's BASE nail, and tell it to set geodetic north there, and scale it to ground there, you can fully tie into his coords, and address them, as though you were set on his base, if he shares his coords with you.

This effectively lets you do alot of things, in the field.
Since it's core coords are Lat Lon, it actually allows a 7 parameter translation, up to 9 times, (One is kept on SPC) and those design coords are retrofitted to lat longs.
This allows you to then EXPRESS both survey points, and design coords onto whatever projection, or system you desire.
I am only mentioning this here, because it is another approach, to an old problem. I do NOT know what is "Best", I know there is ALOT more to this game, than I know.
But, I really do like the KEEPING of separate files, for SURVEY and DESIGN points.
As we go, along, toward more automation, the things now possible, were pipe dreams, 30 yrs ago.
I am very interested in better cogo. I think GOOD COGO in the field is our weakest link, at this point, historically. (Much advance is coming here, in the next 25 yrs).

N