I got an introductory email from a survey broker telling me about his firm and wanting a price on an ALTA survey.
I responded with this:
?ÿ
I appreciate you reaching out to us.
This year alone, we??ve been contracted to complete over $X of ALTA surveys, and we only have about 5 people that normally work on them, and that is only a portion of their work.
We??ve got a long history of providing these surveys all over the southeast, and we have numerous repeat clients.
I am sure that we can handle whatever work load you give us, and you will be satisfied with the results.
However, my past experience with firms of your type shows me that these surveys are treated as a commodity and given to the lowest bidder.
Let me assure you, we will almost never be the lowest bidder.?ÿ There is always someone out there that will work cheaper.?ÿ
If the fee is not the most important consideration, I look forward to working with you on multiple projects.
We can provide a survey of this particular property that meets your requirements for $Y.
Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.
He responded with this:
Good afternoon Tommy,
?ÿ
Thank you for your reply and noted.
?ÿ
Have a good rest of the day.
What do you think he meant by that?
?ÿ
He meant " We will never give you any work but we will always ask you for a price because we need to get 3-5 prices for each of these surveys."
Dan
You just helped him with your time. Basically doing his work for him by sending out a price that will allow him to give it to Mr. cheap?ÿwho he was going to use anyway.
?ÿ
I have a few "clients" like that, I don't even respond to bid requests from them anymore.
He meant, "Eff You."
Sometimes people reply just to let you know they read your email.
You just helped him with your time. Basically doing his work for him by sending out a price that will allow him to give it to Mr. cheap?ÿwho he was going to use anyway.
?ÿ
I have a few "clients" like that, I don't even respond to bid requests from them anymore.
The purpose of my email was to subtly hint that there's no need of wasting our time if there's no chance of me getting any work.
I think it was successful.
I had an out of area title company asking me for a bid on a "dollar" store going in, they just needed a boundary survey, I gave them a proposal. A couple of months later I get another email same city and street asking for a bid on a "dollar" store. I wrote back saying the bid I did before would still be good, they wrote back this is a different dollar store and a different location. I wrote back saying well I didnt get the last job, I am not going to bid on this one. She wrote back noted.?ÿ
I almost always respond to requests for bids with:?ÿ
I will not provide a "bid" for the proposed work.?ÿ I am a licensed professional that provides a professional service, not?ÿa?ÿgambler.?ÿ If you are interested in further discussing this project, please call to schedule?ÿa meeting.
I almost always respond to requests for bids with:?ÿ
I will not provide a "bid" for the proposed work.?ÿ I am a licensed professional that provides a professional service, not?ÿa?ÿgambler.?ÿ If you are interested in further discussing this project, please call to schedule?ÿa meeting.
I would lose out on to much work if I did this. I agree on a Boundary it's difficult to know what you are getting into until you spend time in the field for that tract. However I know which areas I need to charge more for.?ÿ
On construction layouts I know what I charge per building and pad cornes and linear foot for water and sewer lines, and paving. Most of the the time my clients need my proposal so they can make their proposal for a job.
Also my bid or proposal is also on the contract of terms, so if they like it they can sign it so I can start the job.?ÿ
Survey broker can't get job as loan officer, realtor. Surveyor, title examiner so they attempt to create another middleman position to charge a fee for hiring a surveyor to survey their land
Nopr, not today.
Why didn't you just give?ÿa proposal??ÿ
"I would lose out on too much work if I did this. "
"Dang it,?ÿI'm not gonna let anyone under bid me!!!!!?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿ Race to the?ÿbottom........................
If we don't change it, one by one, will it ever change????
Granted, a vast majority of my business is not?ÿconstruction because?ÿI specialize in boundary surveying, but the few jobs I do take that include construction, I operate the same way.?ÿ I refuse?ÿto?ÿpretend?ÿI'm a member of the oldest profession, just?ÿto book jobs at the lowest bid.?ÿ If I can't make the money I deserve as a professional, I take the day or week off and?ÿgo home and spend time with friends and family or ride my horse.?ÿ When doing so, I can at least?ÿhold my head up.?ÿ
When you work in small town?ÿAmerica, word gets around pretty darn quick about business?ÿpractices.?ÿ I will not put myself into a position of defending?ÿmy fees to one?ÿclient after I've given another client a break, just to "get?ÿthe?ÿwork".?ÿ If I can't?ÿmake a living at professional level fees (not "bids"), I'll gladly find another line of work.?ÿ So far, I haven't had to worry about it.?ÿ?ÿ Do you really believe your clients are asking for "bids" from their?ÿdoctors,?ÿlawyers or accountants??ÿ?ÿ?ÿ?ÿYea right.?ÿ Never happens.
I simply?ÿcannot understand so called professionals being booked for weeks in advance, and always behind in getting the?ÿjobs done, bidding work at the lowest possible price.?ÿ It simply confounds me.?ÿ The only?ÿlogical explanation is that many do not actually understand ?ÿwhat it means to be a professional.
Scott, please don't take my rant as an offense towards you personally, I just am tired of this, the second oldest profession, acting like we are the oldest.?ÿ There is no reason, if we all take the professional track, that we can't all prosper.?ÿ Which brings me to another pet peeve of mine?ÿ If we, as?ÿprofessionals demanded?ÿprofessional level compensation that?ÿother professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, etc) receive, would we?ÿhave a problem attracting new and talented youngsters to our profession??ÿ?ÿ I seriously doubt it.?ÿ If you want to solve the so-called problem of not enough surveyors entering the pipeline, we need to start acting and operating?ÿour businesses like the professionals we claim to be, and demand the compensation we should deserve.?ÿ Yes, doing so, would actually involve refusing to do?ÿbusiness with the el-cheapo clients that demand "bids".?ÿ Believe me, it can be done.?ÿ I've done it, and will continue doing it.?ÿ Leave the el-cheapo clients to the low-ballers - they still need to slave 60-70 hours a week?ÿearning next?ÿto nothing.?ÿ But then again, I make a good chunk of change every year?ÿfixing the low-ballers "work".?ÿ?ÿ
Brian,
?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿI did not take it personally I understand where you are coming from, however just because a Surveyor submits a bid/proposal does not mean he is lowballing the job. Plenty of Engineers submit bids/proposals for bridges and buildings, same with Architects. Some State, City and County jobs they have to have 3 or more bids/proposals it doesnt mean all 3 bid are lowballed.?ÿ
My price is my price, I lose more jobs than I get, but I am always busy with work. I just talked with two Veterinarians, both gave me a price range. More Professionals give out bids/proposals than you are giving them credit for.
Brian,
?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿI did not take it personally I understand where you are coming from, however just because a Surveyor submits a bid/proposal does not mean he is lowballing the job. Plenty of Engineers submit bids/proposals for bridges and buildings, same with Architects. Some State, City and County jobs they have to have 3 or more bids/proposals it doesnt mean all 3 bid are lowballed.?ÿ
My price is my price, I lose more jobs than I get, but I am always busy with work. I just talked with two Veterinarians, both gave me a price range. More Professionals give out bids/proposals than you are giving them credit for.
Things are obviously different in different parts of the US.?ÿ Cost cannot be part of any professional engineer/surveyor (and i think architects but don't quote me on that) proposal to any public agency in this area.
I am with Brian on this one.?ÿ I will never supply a bid.
Brian,
?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿI did not take it personally I understand where you are coming from, however just because a Surveyor submits a bid/proposal does not mean he is lowballing the job. Plenty of Engineers submit bids/proposals for bridges and buildings, same with Architects. Some State, City and County jobs they have to have 3 or more bids/proposals it doesnt mean all 3 bid are lowballed.?ÿ
My price is my price, I lose more jobs than I get, but I am always busy with work. I just talked with two Veterinarians, both gave me a price range. More Professionals give out bids/proposals than you are giving them credit for.
Things are obviously different in different parts of the US.?ÿ Cost cannot be part of any professional engineer/surveyor (and i think architects but don't quote me on that) proposal to any public agency in this area.
I am with Brian on this one.?ÿ I will never supply a bid.
It doesnt have to be public jobs, I get clients saying email the CAD file to this Engineer or Architect because they either like their price or design more. The point is if you call another Professional service and ask how much, they will give you a price. You can call it bid/proposals/firm price/whatever you want.
I have even seen Professional such as Dentist, Plastic Surgeons, and Lawyers place their prices on Billboards.?ÿ
Once again just because a bid or proposals is giving doesnt mean the bidder is lowballing. It's just their price in writing.
Why didn't you just give?ÿa proposal??ÿ
I did give a proposal.?ÿ I just wanted to make it clear for future purposes that he didn't need to waste our time if he was intent on getting the lowest price.
I go to a dentist who was recommended as being lower cost than the pirate my wife and daughter had fallen into the clutches of.?ÿ And she is fairly low cost. But it isn't because she is cutting corners. They get you in the chair and get to work. You are in and out pretty quick. The staff is capable and experienced.?ÿDecisions are made promptly.?ÿ They don't try to sell you crap you don't need. The office is clean and modern but in no way ostentatious.
So, my point is, higher fees do not directly equal better service. By all means demand what it's worth. But always give good value for the money.?ÿ ?ÿ
Posted by: Brian Allen
"I would lose out on too much work if I did this. "
"Dang it, I'm not gonna let anyone under bid me!!!!! Race to the bottom........................
If we don't change it, one by one, will it ever change????
Granted, a vast majority of my business is not construction because I specialize in boundary surveying, but the few jobs I do take that include construction, I operate the same way. I refuse to pretend I'm a member of the oldest profession, just to book jobs at the lowest bid.
SO, YOU DON??T WANT TO BE ??NUMBA ONE BOOM BOOM?. REST ASSURED SOMEONE YOU KNOW WILL STEP UP TO THAT CHALLENGE.
If I can't make the money I deserve as a professional, I take the day or week off and go home and spend time with friends and family or ride my horse. When doing so, I can at least hold my head up.
When you work in small town America, word gets around pretty darn quick about business practices. I will not put myself into a position of defending my fees to one client after I've given another client a break, just to "get the work".
NEVER EVER JUSTIFY YOUR FEE??S. THEY ARE WHAT THEY ARE, AND THAT IS IT.
If I can't make a living at professional level fees (not "bids"), I'll gladly find another line of work. So far, I haven't had to worry about it. Do you really believe your clients are asking for "bids" from their doctors, lawyers or accountants? Yea right. Never happens.
I WILL NOT MAKE THE SURVEYORDOCTOR COMPARISION, BUT I DO UNDERSTAND. IF WE WANT TO BE TREATED AS PROFESSIONALS WE NEED TO ACT LIKE IT.
I simply cannot understand so called professionals being booked for weeks in advance, and always behind in getting the jobs done, bidding work at the lowest possible price. It simply confounds me.
THERE ARE MANY SURVEYORS AROUND ME WHO ARE BOOKED FOR MONTHS AND I TOO DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT. EITHER THE CLIENTS ARE TOO DAMNED IGNORANT OR STUPID TO REALIZE THERE ARE OTHERS OR THE OTHER GUYS ARE SO MUCH CHEAPER & MY MONEY IS ON THE LATER. NOBODY WHO NEEDS A SURVEY WAITS FOR MONTHS UNLESS THE COST SAVINGS IS SO GREAT AS TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO WAIT. THESE FOLKS NEED SURVEY WORK DONE BUT IF THEY CAN WAIT FOR 2 MONTHS AND SAVE $600 BUCKS THEY WILL DO IT. OR IN THE CASE I REFERENCE BELOW, MY PRICE FOR A 60 ACRE SURVEY WAS 10K TO 12K WHILE THE OTHER GUY WAS 4K. THE LANDOWNER MAKES OUT LIKE A BANDIT AND SURVEYOR WILLINGLY AND STUPIDLY GOT SCREWED.
The only logical explanation is that many do not actually understand what it means to be a professional.
I??M CONVINCED THEY HAVE NO CLUE.
Scott, please don't take my rant as an offense towards you personally, I just am tired of this, the second oldest profession, acting like we are the oldest.
I HAVE TOLD OTHERS THAT WE ARE CHEAPER THAN STREET WALKING WHORES. MANY AROUND ME COULD DOUBLE THEIR PRICES AND STILL BE TOO LOW.
TWO NEARBY SURVEYORS COULD TRIPLE THERE PRICES BEFORE THEY WERE ACTUALLY WHERE THEY SHOULD BE.
There is no reason, if we all take the professional track, that we can't all prosper. Which brings me to another pet peeve of mine If we, as professionals demanded professional level compensation that other professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers, etc) receive, would we have a problem attracting new and talented youngsters to our profession? I seriously doubt it. If you want to solve the so-called problem of not enough surveyors entering the pipeline, we need to start acting and operating our businesses like the professionals we claim to be, and demand the compensation we should deserve. Yes, doing so, would actually involve refusing to do business with the el-cheapo clients that demand "bids". Believe me, it can be done. I've done it, and will continue doing it. Leave the el-cheapo clients to the low-ballers - they still need to slave 60-70 hours a week earning next to nothing. But then again, I make a good chunk of change every year fixing the low-ballers "work".
I TALKED ABOUT THIS VERY SUBJECT 2 WEEKS AGO AT OUR SOCIETY CHAPTER MEETING. EVERYBODY SHOOK THEIR HEADS AND AGREED BUT I WOULD WAGER A DOLLAR THAT IT WENT IN ONE EAR AND OUT THE OTHER. UNLESS AND UNTILL WE RAISE OUR FEE'S TO THE POINT WHERE GOOD PEOPLE WANT TO DO THIS JOB THEN WE ARE DESTINED FOR THE SCRAP HEAP.
?ÿ
I KNOW OF LIVING SURVEYORS WHO HAVE LOST THEIR HOMES BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT BRING THEMSELVES TO CHARGE MORE. THEY ARE CAUGHT IN A TRAP OF THEIR OWN MAKING BY NOT RECOGNIZING THE VALUE?ÿ OF THE SERVICE WE PROVIDE AND THE DIFFICULTY OF THE WORK AND CHARGING ACCORDINGLY AND INSTEAD THEY ELECT TO?ÿ WORK FOR PAYROLL COST OR WORK FOR WAGES.?ÿ
MARCH OF THIS YEAR A NEARBY SURVEYOR DIED SUDDENLY. HE HAD A REPUTATION OF BEING VERY CHEAP. I WAS CALLED BY A WOMAN WHO WAS AT HIS FUNERAL THAT THEY WERE PASSING AROUND A COLLECTION TO PAY FOR HIS FUNERAL SHE CALLED ME BECASUE SHE NEEDED SOMEONE ELSE TO FINISH THE SURVEY HE HAD STARTED. SHE HAD NO SOONER TOLD ME ABOUT THE FUNERAL COLLECTION THAT SHE ABUSED ME ABOUT MY PRICE AND ASKED IF I COULD DO IT FOR HIS PRICE. ?ÿI REMINDED HER OF HOW INCREDULAOUS SHE WAS & I POLITIELY DECLINED AND TOLD HER I DID NOT WANT MY WIFE TO HAVE TO COLLECT MONEY TO BURY ME.?ÿ SHE FOUND ONE OF THE OTHER CHEAP GUYS IN THE AREA TO DO THE JOB, IRONICALLY THE PERSON SHE FOUND TO DO THE JOB WAS WHO THE DEAD GUY TRAINED UNDER.
I WAS TRIPLE THE DEAD GUYS PRICE AND IT WAS ACTUALLY LESS THAN 14 MILE FROM ME. IT WAS A ABOUT 60 ACRES AND WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD JOB BUT IT DIDN'T WORK OUT.
The client does not give a damn if you go broke doing their job.
