Either you guys are naive or you have your heads in the sand. Money talks and BS walks. If the Engineers can save money by using an in house tech instead of you guys guess what they'll do?
As far as you know it may have been the engineers who proposed pulling your (land surveyors) professional status. It goes like this, civil engineers are tired of land surveyor certification necessary to do business on projects. They go to legislatures (republicans) and say you guys (land surveyors) are driving up the cost of business due to your certification requirements and what you do is a trade and not a profession. So they propose to pull your license as you are hindering business. But to make it palatable they gather a wide net of hair dressers and the like. Everybody else knows what is going on and hire lobbyists to get themselves off the sh*t list except for the numb nut surveyors who don't know WTF is going on. Most of the other groups are prepared and get off the list (it's a game of musical chairs) but the crap sticks to you guys and off with your license. It's really quite simple, numb nuts. Now try to get a job. Of course its slow!
All appearances look to be that his was entirely the brain child of the Republicans who are in firm control of the state's government at this point. Not to get all P&R here ... but I don't think engineers have anything to do with this. They could no doubt benefit from this at our expense, but I don't think they pushed for this all.
> All appearances look to be that his was entirely the brain child of the Republicans who are in firm control of the state's government at this point. Not to get all P&R here ... but I don't think engineers have anything to do with this. They could no doubt benefit from this at our expense, but I don't think they pushed for this all.
Politics is "sleight of hand". You guys have to get a powerful lobbyist, don't try to do it on your own. If you lose your professional status it'll cost you beaucoup bucks to get it back.
The 4 year degree requirement
Why don't you guys get the U of F Professors and budding Geomaticians---the ones that spent several thousands of dollars to get a degree and/or saddled with student loans together to pay your Legislators a visit at the Capitol building?? FREAKING SHOW UP! That's the problem these days---nobody meets face to face with a handshake but rather relies on email and other impersonable means of communication. Get enough of you on the "Group W" bench in their face and I bet they'd change their tune.
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The 4 year degree requirement
I think you are all missing the man behind the curtain, and suspect the legal profession is behind this. I know many of you see Karl Rove behind every corner, but the fact is, he probably doesn't care who is doing boundary work in Texas or Florida.
The natural and expected degradation in quality of work benefits who? Follow the money, folks.
Since you decided to go there...
Stop blaming the "evil" republicans. The Florida Surveyors are reaping what they have sown. They put restrictions on being licensed that basically require you to get a degree that would pay way more in other fields than surveying. They made their field guys "technicians" and stopped mentoring them because, after all, they would never be in a position to be licensed so why bother teaching them anything. All of this in the name of trying to look more respectable to the other professions. And all the while the pool of surveyors got smaller and smaller and smaller. UF cannot graduate enough surveyors to keep up with retiring ones. And that was BEFORE the slowdown. UCF could not get their program off the ground, not enough interest. Instead of telling the judges to kiss their tail when the Profession ruling came down, and pointing out that when the LAW defines it as a profession that the education level cannot be used to undefine it, the surveyors bowed down to their own self loathing. And now they do not bring in enough to pay for their board. So, with a state as money poor as Florida is right now, the state starts looking for money losers and y'all won the prize. And the typical apathy of FSMS showed in their lack of addressing this until after committee. Yeah, the surveyors in Florida are definitely reaping what they have sown.
Since you decided to go there...
> Stop blaming the "evil" republicans. The Florida Surveyors are reaping what they have sown. They put restrictions on being licensed that basically require you to get a degree that would pay way more in other fields than surveying. They made their field guys "technicians" and stopped mentoring them because, after all, they would never be in a position to be licensed so why bother teaching them anything. All of this in the name of trying to look more respectable to the other professions. And all the while the pool of surveyors got smaller and smaller and smaller. UF cannot graduate enough surveyors to keep up with retiring ones. And that was BEFORE the slowdown. UCF could not get their program off the ground, not enough interest. Instead of telling the judges to kiss their tail when the Profession ruling came down, and pointing out that when the LAW defines it as a profession that the education level cannot be used to undefine it, the surveyors bowed down to their own self loathing. And now they do not bring in enough to pay for their board. So, with a state as money poor as Florida is right now, the state starts looking for money losers and y'all won the prize. And the typical apathy of FSMS showed in their lack of addressing this until after committee. Yeah, the surveyors in Florida are definitely reaping what they have sown.
I never called anyone "evil", I merely stated they sponsered, voted for (10-0), called for public comments while stating they were not going to change it, and continue to press on with on this ... draw your own conclusions from those FACTS.
And, I really don't know where you get the idea surveyors stops teaching their PCs and I-man. Before I went solo, I'd never seen that. I relied on and signed there work at my former job, and you can bet we had a lot of discussions about a wide range of topics. In fact, I encourage a few to look into UF's distance learning and off-campus locations, which are a path to getting a license.
And, the degree requirement has nothing to do with this, anyway. Look at the list. There is no degree for hair braiding and home inspection ... I think maybe 2 or 3 of the occupations on that list require a degree, so that's a non-starter ...
As for FSMS, they did appear to be caught off gaurd by this. Perhaps it's because this hearing was the first time the contents of this bill were made public??? FWIW, I have a Geoligist friend who said they were equally caught of gaurd...
Since you decided to go there...
Well said Mr. Georgia! And the same is happening in Texas. We are reaping years of self loathing legislation imposed upon ourselves.
The 4 year degree requirement
The natural and expected degradation in quality of work benefits who? Follow the money, folks.
It benefits the corporations.
Who are paying off our governor.
The 4 year degree requirement
I got the "group W bench" reference. Classic and appropriate.
Since you decided to go there...
As for FSMS, they did appear to be caught off guard by this.
Give 'em a break!
They were probably out on a cruise.
:coffee:
Since you decided to go there...
Whats going on in Texas?
the really sad part is that WE DO HAVE a PAC fund, and what I thought was a pretty proactive state association. It seems that I've wasted a lot of time and money donating to both. Where was our FSMS attorney? where were the PAC lawyers?
Makes me wonder where someone who might have their own personal "organization of surveyors" fits into the whole behind the scenes history of this now "bill". sure looks like it would benefit a private group to me.
Keep in mind many engineers are dual registered. The NCEES has both Engineering and Surveying in its name. Those engineers who went the extra mile to obtain dual registration are not interested in seeing the separate license abandoned, any more than Structural Engineers (in states where that's also a separate license) are.
The combining of all the design professions (Architecture, Engineering, Land Surveying, Structural Engineering) into one licensing section (as is the case here in Illinois) makes sense because it eliminates a lot of the duplication of efforts in adminstering applications and in enforcement actions.
I think a lot of this is needless panic.
Normally you will find your worst enemies to be those who you thought were on your side all along. Most state societies are dominated by a handful of self-serving individuals. That's why they have dedicated their time to being in the power structure.
"Most state societies are dominated by a handful of self-serving individuals. That's why they have dedicated their time to being in the power structure."
Is there any evidence whatsoever to support this assertion? I was a member of Maine's society for 20-some years and found mostly unselfish leaders trying to help their profession and their colleagues. And not much of a "power structure" for them to inhabit, whatever the motive. It's true that they might sometimes drop the ball, being busy and unpaid. Folks were always quick to criticize that from their armchairs back home.
Any actual facts to the contrary?
It's only needless panic if it doesn't come true. The recession has
brought about unbelievable changes in our society. Corporate and
investor GREED has taken over and we are now paying a heavy price all
over the world. Florida's population is just desparate enough to
grasp at any method of saving taxpayer dollars. The thing I don't
understand is how does this save taxpayer money. The cost of operating
the DBPR (which we are no longer lisenced under, now we are under Department of Agriculture) is covered by the cost of the lisences. As costs of operations
go up our lisence fees have gone up. To allow this "PROFESSION" to go unregulated would be like not recording deeds to property. Can you imagine the caos that would cause?! We have to fight it at all costs for the welfare of Florida.
Since you decided to go there...
Yeah Rick, a “seminar at sea”. I disengaged from FSMS as soon as I saw the picture of Marilyn Evers and whoever was “president” at that time standing in front of Mt. Rushmore. Kind of shows us dumb ass surveyors how our dues to the organization are being spent.
Bill
Have a great week!
I had that very concern, for this reason I made the effort to get certified in another State. Screw Florida Engineers that want this option, If you don't appreciate our services, take the wet-behind-the-ears with a piece of paper that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground!
Since you decided to go there...
I wish I knew. All we really are certain of is the Surveyors board is gone. Governor Perry has decided either we are not needed or we are going to be regulated by others.
