We request .dwg files for our site plans, it allows us to x-ref the files into our drawing and ensure accurate points for stakeout. Never have a problem getting these files......well just got my butt handed to me by a miserable old engineer who had to tell me in her 25 years of business she never sends cad files, especially for a piling stake out, hmmm. I wonder why Carlson has that handy feature of X-reference. And she named off the 20 builders she works with, she let me know she never send any on them a cad file. "it's a scaling issue and you would have use it at your own risk".
We never had problems getting these file, and are aware that the x-ref has to be scaled to meet our drawing scale.
Why is she having such an issue? :-S
>
> Why is she having such an issue? :-S
Because she knows how bad her work is.
Just wait until she requests cad files of the as-builts!
:excruciating:
I've seen quite a few design drawings that are little more than concept drawings, and aren't drawn to scale. Things aren't plotting where the dimensions indicate because the dimensions are overwritten with text. If you do get the cad file and if you're edition of CAD will run lisp routines, dig up chkdim.lsp, it identifies dimensions that have text or are overwritten and has saved me a lot of time. Oh . . and don't assume anything is where it is plotted without dimensions or verifying. I suspect that's why they're nervous.
Good luck,
Peter
> Why is she having such an issue? :-S
Why? My theory is supported by many years of reviewing plans. In my entire career I have seen a grand total of 1 plan that worked the first time I saw it.
I expressed this observation to a well known Civil Engineer with a national reputation. He explained that ... "you aren't suppose to build anything according to those plans".
As you might guess my mouth fell open in amazement at that notion. He further explained that the plans they draw are only so the government will approve the project and that if the client wants a plan that might actually work, they had to pay for a second set of plans that should be *correct. (*Correct being defined as including a note that the contractor and surveyor are supposed to fix anything that might not work.)
If this were my business model, and apparently it is the business model of many engineers, I wouldn't want to release a CAD drawing either.
Note that this is just a theory.
Larry P
I'm in full agreement with all of the above. Likely she knows her CAD work is not precise enough to work from. My experience is also that contractors and surveyors generally move the project from concept to actual design. I can't recall a project where the engineering (or even worse architectural) plans sufficed to build from.
I'm always surprised by the lack of understanding regarding CAD work. Lines that don't join at common endpoints, curves that aren't tangent, perpendicular intersections that aren't perpendicular. It seems like this kind of shoddy work would be more difficult to produce than actually doing it right. I mean, snap to endpoint, snap to perpendicular, how hard is that?!
okay stepping down from soap box, taking a deep breath. in with the good, out with the bad...
Thank you all for your feedback! When I get baffled by the situations, it's nice to be able to reach out and find that I am NOT crazy.
> Why is she having such an issue? :-S
The matter has been discussed here, on a number of occasions, from the other side. Lots of surveyors are reluctant to share CAD files with engineers.
You would be surprised how many architects digitize another's building
plan and insert it into the CAD drawing or site plan.
Sounds like she is just used to not sending out electronic files or just doesn't want to. You have my sympathy in trying to work with her.
On the other hand, I just got through sending my son, the architect, a DWG file of a plat that I did last Spring, so that he could utilize the line work in his drawings. He asked me about it last night and I said that I would, but I also got to explain to him once again why surveyors were often hesitant to send electronic files to just anyone who asks. In this case, this was not a 3 dimensional survey (a topo) and at the time of the survey the owner assured me that he would not be needing a topo and only a boundary survey. This survey utilized many points from some previous work where the elevations had not been carried through, but I did carry the elevations through on this job. The thing is, I did not tie in all the necessary features that a thorough topographic survey would require, therefore it could not be used to develop a 3d site plan. I have provided an electronic copy of the line work to several people who have asked, but have had to turn down a couple of folks who wanted the point layer included, just so they could see what I did - right. I even had some say that they could prepare the site plan anyway with whatever points I supplied them (?). My son understands all of this and has no problem with it - he intends to use it for the purpose for which it was done. My discussion with him last night was to prepare him for the future requests that he makes from other surveyors. Mainly, to use the survey for what it was made for and to not try to and use it for what it was not made for.
""it's a scaling issue and you would have use it at your own risk"."
Correct, so what's the problem?
well in her defense it's really hard to draw things to scale using electronic drafting software......geeez
I have found quite a good method to get cad files from reluctant engineers, the contractor makes the request in an email or site information book for the the project, as soon as a certain period of time passes and we have recieved nothing, he picks up the phone and tells the reluctant engineer we will be claiming an extension of time on the contract as they are holding back the works by not suplying the cad files and relevant information to get the project started. It has worked every time.
We even request the co ordinate files for setting out in excel spreadsheet format in this manner. It takes the risk of re typing in the points again away and saves a lot of time. The csv files are checked against the hard copies of course.
I have found the guys who dont want to send you a cad file , is because the cad files are sloppy and badly organised, they probably dont want that getting out. Or they are just so old school guys that know very little about cad and leave it up to their techs to do and dont want their lack of knowledge of the subject to be exposed in any way.
> We request .dwg files for our site plans, it allows us to x-ref the files into our drawing and ensure accurate points for stakeout. Never have a problem getting these files......well just got my butt handed to me by a miserable old engineer who had to tell me in her 25 years of business she never sends cad files, especially for a piling stake out, hmmm. I wonder why Carlson has that handy feature of X-reference. And she named off the 20 builders she works with, she let me know she never send any on them a cad file. "it's a scaling issue and you would have use it at your own risk".
> We never had problems getting these file, and are aware that the x-ref has to be scaled to meet our drawing scale.
> Why is she having such an issue? :-S
If you have no contract with them they are under zero obligation to supply you with electronic data. I wouldn't send any electronic data to a third party without some type of agreement. We share CAD files weekly, but only to clients and only with a well documented agreement regarding liability,use and such.
If this is part of teaming effort I would contact whomever you are working for and explain the situation.
I do find it impossible to believe they haven't shared any cad files in 25 years.
Um...Larry, we do that all the time...we make plans for "agency submission only" Why? because nobody wants to pay for a full set of construction plans unless they get an approval for their project.
The plans are 80% build-able, but all the plans say 'not for construction'..Once approvals are given then we can make construction sets.
We always (well almost always) share CAD files with other professionals. We cannot give CAD files out to non-professionals though.
> Um...Larry, we do that all the time...we make plans for "agency submission only" Why? because nobody wants to pay for a full set of construction plans unless they get an approval for their project.
>
> The plans are 80% build-able, but all the plans say 'not for construction'..Once approvals are given then we can make construction sets.
If clearly marked as agency submission only plans, I am cool with that. Makes perfect sense. The thing is ... these plans I mention, say nothing at all about not being ready to build.
Larry P
Roger...I see what you're sayin'
