Retracement Surveying

Nate, you sure know how to stir it up.... 😉

I'd say 99.999% of what we do is a retracement. Unless you work for the BLM in BFE Alaska and get to set original corners. Even they rely on other peoples previous work (satellite, solar, etc).

Those drive by guys should just stick to mortgage surveys, but they don't - unfortunately. CEU's won't help that problem

> Nate, you sure know how to stir it up.... 😉
>
> I'd say 99.999% of what we do is a retracement. Unless you work for the BLM in BFE Alaska and get to set original corners. Even they rely on other peoples previous work (satellite, solar, etc).
>
> Those drive by guys should just stick to mortgage surveys, but they don't - unfortunately. CEU's won't help that problem

Agreed. The biggest problem I see on a near daily basis is that some (many?) surveyors don't understand when they are or should be "retracing". Some (many?) believe that unless they find a recorded survey performed by a licensed surveyor, a retracement is not applicable - therefore what we get is a "new" deed stakeout, and all the unnecessary problems they create.

Absolutely correct Nate. Boundary retracement has a HUGE historical aspect. For years I have restricted my practice to areas that I feel I have some historical knowledge of. If someone I never heard of was there before me I need to find them and talk things over before I even consider going there.

The path to licensure is the key: if we test our surveyors with the MINIMUM amount of knowledge; why are we surprised to see MINIMUM work?

I hate to say this; I passed the same test......
But I had a mentor(s); one that cared about the future of surveying and I was tested consistantly throughout most of my career.

I hate to say this, too, but we need to change the way we provide licensed professional land surveyors to the public....

Look at the way they do it in Austrailia; look at the way they do it it Canada.

In British Columbia, you provide education, experience and a completed project; under the supervision of a licensed professional; then you get to the take the test. Then, if you don't pass, they have a talk with the mentor to see where the problems are and fix them.

The only answer is education, otherwise; you just claim ignorance.

My 2 cents.....

Like my buddy Larry says: If ignorance is bliss, I'm the happiest person you know;-)

:good:

This is 99% of my work as well. Each job becomes a case. Each area has its quirks. There is a history to be revealed on each case I take. It's my job to know.

If you ever want a vacation and want to try out an original survey we have a few here and there. I have often dreamed of renting a cottage colony for a week or a summer to host a class here. Then I wake up and get back to work.

99.999% of the problems

that drag our profession back and cause immeasurable harm to the public is caused by the small minority of surveyors who point stake in new multiple monuments, then claim "that is what the BLM Manual requires". Point staking is fundamentally NOT retracement, yet we usually are required to retrace unless we are establishing a new, lawfully regulated property line.

> But I had a mentor(s); one that cared about the future of surveying and I was tested consistantly throughout most of my career.
>

:good:

DDSM :beer:

I am of the belief that any property that has been conveyed previously has been "surveyed."

Deed constructors (owners) will frequently create the description and have working knowledge of intent and location. They are the original surveyor.

You need to get that concept out of your mind that the original surveyor was in fact a real live surveyor! It could have been Farmer Jones, Granny Hallet, or Uncle Thaddeus... It is not meant to restrict you to only "footsteps of a registerec licensed, bonafide, card carrying PROFESSIONAL LAND SURVEYOR!!!!!"

Therefore, I submit, that here, on this sand bar that has been occupied in excess of 300 years, there are not any original surveys left to do. We can only create new surveys based on our interpretation of what the original intent was.

What's the difference

Why is it called retracement survey. Aren't all boundary surveys retracement surveys, except those creating new parcels.

Yet

We will spend hours arguing over the correct way to "balance" a tenth of a foot error in our traverses while setting a new pin within the expected error in a previous survey. GPS, EDM, transit and tape, compass and chain, HOW was the monument set and why would you reject one that doesn't fit your arithmetic?

Andy

:good: :good:

Yet

"... why would you reject one that doesn't fit your arithmetic?"

Because you are an expert measurer, not a land surveyor. you passed the exam and stopped learning that day...

Back in the Midwest I didn't know a lot of multi-state Licensees. It took me quite some time in the Northwest to wrap my head around how that could work. Now I find traveling to be my every day bread and butter.
The biggest difference here is we are all recording States. Most of the communities I work in have been for nearly 50 years. Another major factor is the prevalence of active County Surveyors. The quality and organization skills vary greatly, but it sure is nice when you meet a good one. Beyond that it's about the work flow. If you're a myopic Deed staker at home you will likely be one on the road. Requiring a PHD won't eliminate that. If you discover an issues and don't work through them in a Professional manner, it's likely a habit you have at home as well. The only cure for this is a combination of educating and holding ourselves and fellow Professionals accountable.
A few other comments caught my eye and this response is to the general populace. I am particular about the data my crew brings in. We have a very specific workflow that provides a correctly quantified statement of how well our work was done. Knowing how to do that does not require me to discharge my knowledge of boundary law to make room for what is generally simple math. There is absolutely nothing wrong with performing the measurement portion of this job well. The idea that we must choose one or the other is simply silly.
my .02, Tom

Interesting comments Tom. Having come from that part of our country (MI) and worked there for about 30 yrs, multi-state licensees are in fact few and far between. I did know one guy who moved from Chicago and had his IL license. It just seems to me that portion of our world does tend to require a degree and lots of experience, and the exams are not quite so straight forward.

Retracing a 1897 subdivision on a lake that has moved is real freakin tricky. Oh yea, meandered rivers are always fun, and then chasing a non-meandered big arse creek is a real joy. Riparian issues really come into play, as the property values keep climbing.

West, not so much from what I've seen. An "old subdivision" around here is from the 1970's. Heck, I've got boots that old. I love nothing more than finding that old timers pipe that people have been accepting.

Now out here in AZ, it is common and most of the surveyors I know have multiple states in their pocket. I even got my NV license, but have yet to do anything there since I got it (2010 I think). Maybe some day before I push daisies.

$0.02 too.

Wow, Foggy, that was good!!!:-)