Question about due diligence

Good question. There is that word "shall" again. I don't know if one can conditionally interpret the meaning.

> My question: Can not subscribing to these second party services be considered a lack of proper research?

Given that you *know* about these services, failing to utilize them could possibly be considered lack of research, I suppose.

I would lean towards utilizing the service. The fee could be a pass through to the client(s). Knowing the data is there and not using it for the convenience of it forces me to search thru the misc. files for the potential impact it could have on my survey. I also hear in the back of my head, Whats cheaper.... the service or an attorney?
We have the same type of services in my area. Some are around $2500/ month for the easy access. Too, much for me, so I spend a lot of time in a select few court houses and have a good understanding of the past clerk's filing practices. At the end of the day, I feel I have made a good faith effort in my due diligence of fact finding.
Using a title company for an O&E report runs from $100/report or $70/hr for more difficult research.

SD

I am trying to wrap my mind around how a second party can scan public records and then charge for them. Everything we have scanned is free online. I am also aware of second party companies that have scanned records in other counties at the cost of the taxpayers and then that county makes them available for free online to the public.

> I would lean towards utilizing the service.

Oh, I do. I've got three credit cards that stay maxed out because of auto-pay for all these services.

I have a colleague that is putting together a class on our "Minimum Standards" and has asked me to ghost his subject matter, particularly research. Knowing the frugal nature of a good number of our brethren; I know for a fact a lot of surveyors don't subscribe. (They don't have to, they just call me and ask for my login and password...:pinch: )

My question is of a rhetorical nature. I guess a better way to ask: Could a surveyor fail to meet minimum standards because of the condition of the records?
or is a search considered complete (in accordance with Minimum Standards) if it does not produce a document that publically exists?

Everything is still available for free in the courthouse, they are charging for their value-added service: indexing and making them easier to search.

> My question: Can not subscribing to these second party services be considered a lack of proper research?

I'd say no, not by itself. The catch, though, is that if you do not examine a "necessary" record - which I assume is defined as one that would have modified the results of your survey had you known about it - you haven't met the minimum standards.

There are, one would think, other ways to access the records than via commercial service. In theory, a surveyor working in the county could compile his or her own index of the otherwise unindexed maps and use that as the basis of research. Unlike Texas, indexing in PLSSia should be a snap.

"I am trying to wrap my mind around how a second party can scan public records and then charge for them."

That's what Title Companies do. In my area the three largest companies all purchase their documents form a Malaysian Co.!

"...acquire available necessary survey data, which may include ..."

It doesn't say "...ALL available necessary..."

Still, it's troubling language. Instead of "shall acquire" I would rather see something like "perform a reasonable search for".

I'm working on a survey that is part of an unrecorded plat. The description is metes and bounds, then it references the tracts in the unrecorded plat in an easement that encumbers the property. Several of the deeds in the area, that I've looked at and a few surveys, reference this unrecorded plat.

I've looked in the King county map room, at the Assessors office, at the Recorders office and at the DNR. Nothing, nada; the DNR gave me the names of 2 companies that might have record of this unrecorded plat; I had already been in contact with them. I talked to a reputable Title Company in the area; they said that sometimes, unrecorded plats just never made it to paper; it was someones idea of selling off their porperty. There may have been something, at sometime, but now it's gone....

And, of course, the client wants this completed yesterday.

Could this plat change my survey? Maybe

Have I performed my due diligence? Please let me know what you think; could I have missed something?

Doug

Ah man you don't need all that stuff, I just asked an attorney for the deeds on a parcel of land when he handed me the title commitment, and he told me I don't need the deeds.;-)

It would be nice to have them I say when I go to the courthouse to do my research.

What? you don't need to go to the courthouse, you have everything there!!! he says

SIGH:-(

> I am trying to wrap my mind around how a second party can scan public records and then charge for them. Everything we have scanned is free online. I am also aware of second party companies that have scanned records in other counties at the cost of the taxpayers and then that county makes them available for free online to the public.

Then ponder this: Years ago (prior to online InterWeb stuff) there was a blueprint outfit near the Los Angeles County courthouse who would do records research for a fee. The surveyor would never visit the courthouse. You could order just a list of relevant documents or copies (much pricier).

How about a second party doing your research for you? Is that diligent?

A big catch in doing a diligent search is being sufficiently familiar with the resource to even begin to do a diligent search. That is part of my gripe about those who blow in from Timbuktu and do stealth surveys. They can't possibly learn of the full range of resources available to them without either years of experience in that particular area or contacting a local licensee to assist them in being certain they access the full range of resources. There is no shame in seeking help.

I'm running in to an issue with this as well.

I work for a company in Central California. Prior to be coming on board here, the company had contracted to do some survey work in a dozen or so locations across Northern California counties. It is all find and nice to have these contracts, but now that I'm finally able to put together the Record of Survey for each of these projects, I'm finding that my predecessor didn't get all of the available documents that would have shed light on the project. And the County Surveyor's Offices checking these surveys are asking me (rightfully so) "what about this map? or this document?" that would have been turned up if the research had diligently been done.

Over budget? Of course. Getting done correctly now? Yes.

But in reference to the original post, I'd say that if a document is duly recorded and part of the public record, it can be considered a necessary part of the research. And though subscribing to these services isn't likely necessary, the trade off is that you'll spend the time and effort digging through the poorly indexed records at the "free" source. So really, you pay for it one way or the other, you just have to find out which way costs less (both in money and in hassle).

I can't see how it's less diligent than trusting your party chief to give you accurate shots and notes. If you regularly use one you know to be shoddy then it would not be, but if you trust their work and do the homework to make sure they do a good job, I say go nuts.

We work in several States. I've gotten pretty comfortable with finding locals and I've developed a deep appreciation for good County Surveyors...
As for the research, right now I'm happy to pay. When it's slow I'd rather be the one getting paid to do the work...

Yes, a good county surveyor is wonderful. If you get a bureaucratic county surveyor...maybe not so wonderful to work in that county...