Question

Yes, it is still valid. The deed must have a patent ambiguity to fail and not convey title. How much difference between the original plat and what the fella next door shows? Can you post the original plat and the guy next door's plat?

Need more info.

Never mind "before I have a survey done".

Your post indicate that there could be problems with other lots in the subdivision....without access to the map and deeds, there isn't a lot of help anyone on here can give you.

We can only speak in generalities here.....do yourself a favor and get the survey done.

That's the only answer that will count.

It's not unusual (unfortunately) to find errors in dimensions given in deeds and on plats. We are, after all, human. I wouldn't get too hung up on the numbers and differences in numbers. It could be one or both of the documents contain some form of error.

The real answer will lie on the ground in the form of the monuments. You stated:

> The person on the other side of me still has a iron pipe in place and when I pull the length of his property as stated in deed and the length of our property it also shows the the one neighbors survey is off.

You need to find monuments from the subdivision plat on both sides of your property (including your own). If those monuments are missing, you'll need a survey done to replace the missing monuments. If your neighbor has a survey, have them take you out to the back yard and show you the marker. That's where the survey is; it's on the ground, not on the paper.

JBS

We have already talked to a Surveyor and he is comming out in about a week and a half. The neighbors survey shows their line more then 10' over what we think ours should be by pulling off the other neighbors iron pipe. The neighbors we are in dispute with will not even show us their survey after I pointed out that the numbers on the call didnt match their deed.

Anyone have any idea why the numbers on their survey wouldn't match whats on their deed. I wish i had a copy of it but from what i remember the surveyor used existing iron pipes on the line in question to go by, But I can only find one and it is not in a corner that is in dispute. I worked for years in geotechnical engineering and am good at finding stuff in the ground but cant find the iron pipe that their survey says should be there.

In my state, original monuments in the ground hold over distances and bearings written on a plat or a deed (in most cases). If the deed is different than the plat, it is possible that the later surveyor found evidence and used rules of reconstruction to determine the legal boundaries of the tract. You are adding way too many variables too quickly to get a hard and fast answer on here and that is what you local surveyor is paid to determine.

Just wanted to say thanks everyone for the input. I know I just need to wait to see what the surveyor finds, but wife is stressing over it and was trying to find some info to give her peace of mind before then. I will update everyone on the results.

And once again thanks

John B

> So with that said I have a question, even tho the call on the line does not match the description on the deed is their survey valid?

The subdivision map is a plan. The surveyors who did the subdivision, sometimes, attempt to follow that plan and install monuments. If the surveyor of the subdivision is bound by the governing agency to set lot corners, then those are installed.

You are dealing with two things here. A plan value, and a field measured value which is the actual distance between the physical monuments. They never ever agree, plan to field measured.

As far as the other persons survey being valid or not...

Maybe..

It depends on the quality work of that surveyor as well as the quality of work of the subdividing surveyor who may or may not have set the subdivision lot corners. If the subdividing surveyor did quality work and a quality surveyor followed him to do the neighbors survey, I would say thier survey is probably something you could depend upon.

Like all things if life, there are those that do thier best and those that dont really give a damn and just want to get thier 8 hours in or thier contract survey fee and get the hell outta there.

So..the answer about the survey is..it depends.

> The person on the other side of me still has a iron pipe in place and when I pull the length of his property as stated in deed and the length of our property it also shows the the one neighbors survey is off.

Well..how is the lot configured? Is it a perfect 90° rectangle or is the line you are pulling from (the iron pipe) at a skewed angle to the line you are pulling to?

Are you working with curved lines? Is the terrain basically level, or is there some grade change taking place? Are you using a long enough tape to measure thie distance, like a 100 foot long one, or are you measuring in stages with a 6 or 12 foot hand tape?

>The neighbors survey shows their line more then 10' over what we think ours should be by pulling off the other neighbors iron pipe

Ten feet is quite a chunk in a single family subdivision setting. Are you 100% sure that the pipe you are measuring from is actually the one you think it is?

Do yourself a HUGE favor and do not shop for the lowest price in town. The saying "you get what you pay for" is probably felt more in land surveys than any other area I can think of. You paid a lot of money for your investment, do not scrimp on getting a quality survey. If you go with the lowballer price, do this..

Take half the fee...burn it. Put the other half in your pocket and hire a good surveyor who has a good reputation.

yeah we are not going the cheap route on the surveyor. if it is any help here is a link to the plat. we are lot 38 the people we are in dispute with is lot 39, The iron pipe i spoke of is on lot 37 and they have a survey that shows iron pipe in relation to a telephone junction box that was in place at time lane was devided.

also on the line in question there is a water easment, there was a power pole and phone junction box in place before property was devided and before gravity drain was placed. the county has no record of where on the easment they placed the drain. the plat does not show poles,drain or phone box but a call to power and phone company confirmed that they were in place before land was surveyed and developed.

thanks again

forgot the link. http://services.wakegov.com/booksweb/docview.aspx?docid=902622

Question IF in SOZ and selling...

Not commenting on surveying , but here in S OZ if a property is put on the market, as is this case, then the seller knowing that there is a potential problem over a difference between occupation position in relation to boundary position, then it must be declared to all interested in purchasing the property.

Like wise if the previous owners of JB's property were aware of a potential boundary problem when they sold they would be obliged to declare it. The date of neighbour's survey and knowledge if the previous property owner of your property was aware would here give rise to compensation claim if proven.

RADU

Looks like the frontage on lot 38 should be 90.14

The frontage on lot 39 should total 140.80

Could this be as source of confusion?

Your property is described in your deed as being a certain lot on a plat. The plat has dimensions and it also states that there are iron pipes marking the corners. In law the pipes, being monuments, have more "weight" than the dimensions. When the dimensions don't match the measurements between the monuments, the monuments rule.

As previously mentioned, there are many factors to consider that go far beyond the plat.

A few months ago, I performed a boundary survey knowing that a neighbor had constructed a new fence without having a survey done. He and another fellow stumbled onto an iron pipe that they assumed was set to mark the east line of man's property. The lot was supposed to be 50 feet wide, so they measured that far and began to build a fence. The built the fence approximately one foot into my client's property but thought they had kept it one foot back from the property line. The key difference was that we searched for survey monuments in three blocks with some success and discovered that the pipe the measured from was two feet too far west and two feet too far north relative to all other monuments found (and which were set by licensed surveyors who had recorded their surveys in the public record). They worked from an erroneous pipe with no history because it somewhat agreed with where they guessed they might find something. Meanwhile, the completely missed another erroneous bar set in a chunk of concrete that would have moved their assumed line four feet to the east of the true location.

Today I received a letter from my former client's attorney asking for help with the civil suit that is now underway with the adjoiner and his misplaced fence. Neither landowner can afford this lawsuit, but, each is determined to prove the other guy wrong. The land and the fence cost less than what either one has already spent on lawyers.

On their survey it say 135'.36" for total length, The people on lot 37 states that theirs 89'.9" in length. and i have been told that 5'.44" goes with the length of mine from a pivot in call line.

Just curious if that 20 foot wide drainage easement might have something to do with the probelm. Most states you're not supposed to build in a drainge easement and I've seen many a fence built on the edge of one instead of along the property line.

Jim

Question IF in SOZ and selling...

Just want to say thanks again for all the input from everyone, this has been a lesson learned, The property we bought had been forclosed on and we got it for 30k less then market price. All that had to be done was paint inside and fix one peice of the gutter which I did all of myself. In the rush of beating other buyers to get the property we skiped a survey, and as i now see was a bad move. next one we get a survey is going to be a must.

We talked to the city about the easment before we built the fence and they agreed that if I built it in a way that they would be able to get easy access in the event it needed to be serviced that it would be ok. I built it so 10 screws could be removed and post pulled up and 2 10'wide sections can swing on hinges to allow access. It is really looking like the person that did thier survey assumed that the drain was in the center of the easment, the city dont have record of where they placed it in relation to property lines. But it is known that power poles and phone junction boxes were in place in the easment before the drain was placed.

And their fence is also in the easment based on their survey.

Sir,
Just to clarify a technical point for you. A number on a survey plat such as 19.67 feet means a distance of 19 feet plus 0.67 additional feet, which is very close to 8 inches. (12 inches x 0.67 = 8.04 inches) Surveyors do not use inches in descriptions unless copying a very old deed written by a layman or lawyer.