Should the people that work in the Board's office be allowed to answer a simple question about the interpretation of the board rules? I ask because an employee of an un-named board refused to tell me whether or not my next license renewal would be my first renewal. I think that it is, but because my license originated several months before the last renewal, I am unsure.
Tommy, given the question that you are asking, my answer would be absolutely yes. We answer questions every day on interpretation of board rules (and the statutes that the board is tasked with enforcing). Not knowing which state you are referring to, which doesn't really matter because I'm more familiar with my own state's processes, I can only respond based on how we do it in California.
Here the statute specifically gives the board authority to promulgate rulemaking for the purposes of implementing statutes. If the board cannot answer a question on interpreting a rule that they themselves established and justified, something is not right. Even state legislators and lawmakers seek guidance from the board on interpretations of these laws. My guess is that you may have reached a staff person that did not have the answer. I would try again and be persistent.
Ric
Our Oklahoma Board staff is generally pretty good at fielding phone queries. Any of a number of folks might answer there, and will direct your call to the one staff member that is in charge of renewals, rules, money owed, or whatever you heart desires. If nobody can answer, the director (and she's always there, too) will probably have an answer.
Just thought I'd take the opportunity to brag on them a bit....
and yes, it's called "sucking up"...
For what it's worth, this is the same state that didn't tell my my application had been tabled for lack of a certain form, and the same state that didn't inform me that I failed the exam the first time I took it.
The last email I sent informed them that I was assuming that I didn't need the continuing education, and that I was printing that email and placing it in the file in case the board decided to sanction me for not getting the continuing education.
At least you have a Surveyors Board.
In Kansas, the Kansas State Board of Technical Professions handles licensing of professional engineers, architects, professional land surveyors, geologists and landscape architects. Of the total number of licenses in all five areas (16985 total), 12378 (73%) are professional engineers and 726 (4%) are professional land surveyors. Architects hold down second place with 2860 (17%). I would assume that less than half of each group actually reside within the state. Of those, a significant fraction would be what you would call inactive for one reason or another.
Two part response:
(a) What irks me is when they reply by quoting the rules, written in legalize by an attorney, and if I could have deciphered the rule in the first place I wouldn't be asking, now would I?
(b) My favorite of all was the state board that let me know I should be in their state capital (900 miles away) the next morning for my exam, and didn't mention that some drafting equipment was needed. Not until months later did they let me know that I could have taken the exam by arrangement here in Tucson. Now that's service.
paden cash, post: 367468, member: 20 wrote: Our Oklahoma Board staff is generally pretty good at fielding phone queries. Any of a number of folks might answer there, and will direct your call to the one staff member that is in charge of renewals, rules, money owed, or whatever you heart desires. If nobody can answer, the director (and she's always there, too) will probably have an answer.
Just thought I'd take the opportunity to brag on them a bit....
and yes, it's called "sucking up"...
You're right Paden, Kathy is great to work with. We like the Oklahoma Board!
I passed the exam last year and still don't have my certificate in one state I'm licensed in.
Call them every day until they get so frustrated they send it to you. Persistence is more powerful than just about anything else in the world.
Holy Cow, post: 367522, member: 50 wrote: Call them every day until they get so frustrated they send it to you. Persistence is more powerful than just about anything else in the world.
Luke 18:1-8
[sarcasm]mea culpa in advance for the P&R[/sarcasm]
Tommy Young, post: 367469, member: 703 wrote: The last email I sent informed them that I was assuming that I didn't need the continuing education, and that I was printing that email and placing it in the file in case the board decided to sanction me for not getting the continuing education.
Rather than informing them, you should have asked for confirmation. If you simply inform them, you are not placing any responsibility on them to correct you if you are wrong. Yes, common sense and common courtesy requires a response to inform you if you are wrong, but the law doesn't. If they haven't responded to you either way, I suggest that you send another with the Executive Director cc'd on it. Be very specific that you need clarification on that requirement and that you are requesting a response from them either to confirm or to correct your understanding of the requirement as it pertains to your situation.
Bruce Small, post: 367482, member: 1201 wrote: Two part response:
(a) What irks me is when they reply by quoting the rules, written in legalize by an attorney, and if I could have deciphered the rule in the first place I wouldn't be asking, now would I?
(b) My favorite of all was the state board that let me know I should be in their state capital (900 miles away) the next morning for my exam, and didn't mention that some drafting equipment was needed. Not until months later did they let me know that I could have taken the exam by arrangement here in Tucson. Now that's service.
This is the Board to whom I provided 5 references to be positive that they would get the required 3. They only sent letters to 3 of the 5 - when 1 didn't respond not only did they not send letters to the other 2, they didn't even notify me of the situation!
eapls2708, post: 367921, member: 589 wrote: Rather than informing them, you should have asked for confirmation. If you simply inform them, you are not placing any responsibility on them to correct you if you are wrong. Yes, common sense and common courtesy requires a response to inform you if you are wrong, but the law doesn't. If they haven't responded to you either way, I suggest that you send another with the Executive Director cc'd on it. Be very specific that you need clarification on that requirement and that you are requesting a response from them either to confirm or to correct your understanding of the requirement as it pertains to your situation.
I had asked for confirmation earlier in the exchange.
The exact reply was, "I cannot interpret the rules and statutes for you. It is up to you to determine if you fall as a ÛÏnew registrant.Û"
Tommy,
most intelligent people would interpret that statement to mean that you want confirmation, but again, you're not directly asking them to provide you with the interpretation. Rather you are making two statements. The first is about what you cannot do. The second is you telling them what their responsibility is.
Correspond with recalcitrant bureaucrats in the same way that one would need to tell a computer what to do (at least prior to Ciri & Cortana). State what you want them to do in very clear and precise language. Don't give them wiggle room to "reasonably interpret" your message as anything other than a request for clarification of the rules as they apply specifically to your situation.
Even if you make it clear enough that you are requesting an interpretation of that particular rule, but don't also make it clear that you want the interpretation with regard to your specific circumstances, you may get a general interpretation that makes application to your situation no clearer than the language of the rule itself.
I've been in and out of government service for half my career and have dealt with more than my share of uncooperative bureaucrats. Believe me, this is the way it often is.
Sounds like they are incompetents @ that State Board.
I will give a shout-out to the NC State board. I emailed them a question about possible eligibility to take their exam and their answer was quick and very it explicitly addressed my question.
Neil Grande, post: 367495, member: 8175 wrote: I passed the exam last year and still don't have my certificate in one state I'm licensed in.
You must being referring to a state just north of GA, just west of NC, just east of AR.... you get the point.
Well my certificate came in today. Problem is that it looks like something that came from Tri-State Barber School instead of a profession that I've worked at for the past decade to get licensed. Hopefully this is just a temporary certificate and they are sending me the real thing later.
Tommy Young, post: 367928, member: 703 wrote: I had asked for confirmation earlier in the exchange.
The exact reply was, "I cannot interpret the rules and statutes for you. It is up to you to determine if you fall as a ÛÏnew registrant.Û"
If I had such a problem, I would call my State Representative's office. The Representative will usually have one or more staff people who will call the agency if you ask them to. Nothing gets a bureaucrat's attention like a call from the office of an elected official who votes on their budget.
That does look like just a receipt. The Certificate should be signed by a President of the Board and Secretary, maybe an Executive Director - and not have an expiration date on it. The Board may need to meet to officially adopt the list of passing examinees.
Some States are quite ornate, others not so much.
Congratulations, by the way!
Thanks Warren but I just found out that IS the certificate. They don't give out the nice ones anymore. I doubt I'll even frame it. It's about the size of a postcard.