My interesting week

Nate The Surveyor, post: 371026, member: 291 wrote:
This is an interesting survey. What you can see in this first pic, is a 5/8" rebar, and the Javad and pole is on a 1/2" rebar, set by a "Superior Tripod Jockey" (STJ) What happened, was this developer, went and bought some 170 acres, in around 1978. Then, cut timber, and sold it. Then, he'd hire the lowest priced surveyor, that money could buy. He hired a guy with a compass and tape. (We will call him C&T) And a pile of pinch top pipes, and whatever metal he could buy from the local scrap metal yard. So, this 170 ac got cut into 3 or so acre pieces, by C&T.
Well, as it works out in Arkansas, the plat got recorded, in 1979.
THEN, lots were sold by description, with no mention of the plat. The way it worked, is $ 75.00 down, and $ 75.00 a month That could take 150-250 months to pay for. Depending. If you missed 3 payments in a row, then he reposed it. And, you STARTED OVER with payments. And, all past payments were considered rent. This mechanism of selling by description kept the developer from paying a higher tax rate, on his remaining unsold lots. (VEWY IMPOTENT!) Keep taxes down!

Well, the MARKS seen on the ground were set and seen by the buyers. These were the ones set by C&T (That's Mr Compass and Tape) and were used, as boundary marks. Errors were either in the 2-3 foot vicinity, OR in the 30-50' vicinity. Most are in the 2-3 foot variety. (That's were measurements actually happened)
Fast forward, to 2004. Along comes STJ. He finds the ORIGINAL survey marks, and REJECTS them, and sets his own markers. That's where my pole is sitting above.
Here is another pic, same point, but different angle. It's about 5.4' between the STJ corner, and the C&T survey. The 5/8" rebar is an original C&T corner.

I am holding the C&T survey points, because they were SET at the time there was ONE owner on ALL sides of that line/corner. Therefore, they are the markers people SAW when the signed the contract for 75 down, and 75 a month. And, they have been there a long time.

Another interesting anecdote is that I did this survey WITHOUT Glonass. What had happened is that I got excited, and moved up to the TESTING version of JAVAD, and for that period of time, GLONASS was not functioning, from the base corrections. (I was warned that it could have bugs, and to continuously check things) So, I have to live with that. It's fixed now. As soon as I found it, Javad got me going the next day, with GLONAS and all. I was actually becoming discouraged, with the Javad, on this job, as I thought it was "Really doing poorly since leaves came out". Then we found the problem. (Thanks !)

BUT I was ABLE to get serious shots here, even without glonass. It took about 30 minutes to 45 minutes per shot. What saved the day was PPK Post Processed Kinematic. That is, I had RAW data to confirm that I was on the right point. And, I had taped between them, when there were 2 points a few feet apart.

But, this whole idea, of continuous correction of "Previous Surveyors Errors" is not a healthy surveyors practice. It's where we get pincushions. and where we get multiple punch marks, on a cap.

America is built, with FIXED non moving markers. The old Biblical injunction "Not to move the old landmarks" definitely comes to play here.
Document, and revise the descriptions, not the markers.

What's funny is that STJ above YIELDED to many other original surveyor marks around this same neighborhood, but rejected those ones. That is, it was not a consistent application of "Fix the mess". Other surveyors in this neighborhood also seem to try to "Fix some, and accept others" without a consistent pattern...

When a corner is SET at the time of ONE OWNER in all directions, that is the ORIGINAL marker. And, they were SET at the direction of that ONE owner.
IF it is a marker set along the BOUNDARY of the 170 acres above, then it only binds on the interior line, it may be shortened, or extended, to be on the EXTERIOR title line, or SUPERIOR title line. Much like a closing corner, along the northerly and westerly side of a Township.
O well.

Happy Pin Accepting, and Pounding, and Researching so you know when to do what!

🙂

N

"If you missed 3 payments in a row, then he reposed it. And, you STARTED OVER with payments. :

Choctaw Bingo... LOL!!

And..... The reason The final stuff is not on it... is My/Javad's fault.

As I said, I moved to the testing version. I have been banging around with it. Trying to get everything just right. DPOS in the testing version has been giving me trouble.
I have a file sent to the Javad folks, to figure out. They have it part way solved.
So, I did not schedule time to get back, and get the last coordinates out of it... on the right datum.

Anyway. It's what happens when you migrate to the testing version. I wanted to be able to INFLUENCE the direction of development. It's the price I pay. I really like it, when it works right. When it does not... well, I wait a day, and they get 1 thing fixed, and break another.

I actually enjoy such stuff. Just wish I were not trying to make money meanwhile. I'm also learning some of the Javad software. Cogo, that is. They re invented the wheel.

N

"Kent caught the Katy AND left me a compass and tape to ride!"

Nate The Surveyor, post: 371479, member: 291 wrote: STJ is passed away. So is James O Tallent (C&T) SJT had a party chief doing alot of his work though... and he's around someplace....

I was did not intend on letting the actual names of the involved parties get out.

Just out of... well, they are not alive, to speak for themselves.

N

I get that Nate, and I could explain my comment further but you get that too. You'll notice I didn't repeat the real names disclosed.

No need to go insultin' the good ol' Katy............Missouri Kansas and Texas to be precise. There was no Oklahoma when the name was crafted.

Tommy Young, post: 371418, member: 703 wrote: ....Do you have proof the monument moved?

Nate made measurements between the several C&T monuments and found a pattern that convinced him that they are in their original positions, which is good enough for me. My point in making that statement is that a surveyor shouldn't just assume that any monument he finds is correct and undisturbed until it is proven otherwise. Quite the contrary, each monument found has to be proven by some supplementary evidence before it can be accepted. That is just what Nate did and I'm pretty sure that is just what you routinely do also.

Nate The Surveyor, post: 371344, member: 291 wrote:
Here is bk 2, Pg 158

Most interesting that his description refers to the property by a lot of the plat, then he rejects the found monuments. That does seem rather inconsistent.

Nate The Surveyor, post: 371367, member: 291 wrote: ... Here is my plat.

You, Nate, have held the plat and it's monuments on your map but make no reference to the Lot and plat in your description.

You are right, sorta... not in the description. But my report sure connects them.... I usually add a note to the description, calling "As shown on Survey plat, and date, etc."
This iteration of the plat is what I had when I went out the door, to meet the client, and finish staking the perimeter lines.
Thanks for the comments. I had no idea when I made my OP, that this would garner the attention it has.
It was sort of off hand...

N

Dave Karoly, post: 371513, member: 94 wrote: "Kent caught the Katy AND left me a compass and tape to ride!"

Damn, I have had the Blues Brothers in my head ever since this thread came out.

Willie 'Too Big' Hall: You'll never get Matt and Mr. Fabulous out of them high-payin' gigs.
Jake: Oh yeah? Well me and the Lord, we have an understanding.

DDSM:beer::beer::beer:

[MEDIA=youtube]TrxSM_Gxtqw[/MEDIA]

This one here's my favorite scene:

[MEDIA=youtube]HeOHLunhNWs[/MEDIA]

How did people not get anything done before the internet...:-S

B-)

You all have a great day, I know I will!

Dougie

I forgot to mention, my north arrow is way better looking than friend Kent's!
(I borrowed it from another surveyor.)
I really shoulda made my own, but I liked that one.
Maybe I'll do that soon.
N

Nate The Surveyor, post: 371367, member: 291 wrote: Proven? I don't know what you need. I'm satisfied. My stamp is on the plat. Here is my plat.

So here's the grasshopper question of the thread (I wouldn't know where to start with all the other stuff being thrown around, except to say we're all God's children)...

On the plat, beneath the North arrow, you show where this is, (Sec. 12, T4s etc.). On that grid, there are some circles, (Bottom right corner, top right corner, top center, and center center), which, according to your legend are: "Found Monument, as noted". Does that mean you went to those locations and found the monuments? Those are PLSS corners, right?

rfc, post: 372143, member: 8882 wrote: So here's the grasshopper question of the thread (I wouldn't know where to start with all the other stuff being thrown around, except to say we're all God's children)...

On the plat, beneath the North arrow, you show where this is, (Sec. 12, T4s etc.). On that grid, there are some circles, (Bottom right corner, top right corner, top center, and center center), which, according to your legend are: "Found Monument, as noted". Does that mean you went to those locations and found the monuments? Those are the whole PLSS things, right?

Yes, you are correct.
If you want a good concise read on it, get a copy of Higgins.
I have alot more ties than that, but I did not show ties into adjoining sections.

Nate The Surveyor, post: 372141, member: 291 wrote: I forgot to mention, my north arrow is way better looking than friend Kent's!
(I borrowed it from another surveyor.)
I really shoulda made my own, but I liked that one.
Maybe I'll do that soon.
N

Nate,
I visited with M. S. Foster yesterday and mentioned the famous 'fish tail' North arrow had found its way onto BeerLeg. He reminded me that you professionally requested its use and was happy you found it usable.:beer:

rfc, post: 372143, member: 8882 wrote: So here's the grasshopper question of the thread (I wouldn't know where to start with all the other stuff being thrown around, except to say we're all God's children)...

On the plat, beneath the North arrow, you show where this is, (Sec. 12, T4s etc.). On that grid, there are some circles, (Bottom right corner, top right corner, top center, and center center), which, according to your legend are: "Found Monument, as noted". Does that mean you went to those locations and found the monuments? Those are PLSS corners, right?

RFC,
Here is a quick PLSS primer.
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/forestmanagement/documents/plsstutorial.pdf

Nate's Section location diagram let's others know which corners have been perpetuated.

DDSM:beer:

Hey- I was reading thru this and wondered about the area in question at Lots 30 and 31 of Caddo Hills. I think I know the answer of what was right but what ever happened here with the 0.14 ac.? From the page 6 plats.

[USER=10211]@FrancisH[/USER]

Nate The Surveyor, post: 371026, member: 291 wrote: But, this whole idea, of continuous correction of "Previous Surveyors Errors" is not a healthy surveyors practice. It's where we get pincushions. and where we get multiple punch marks, on a cap.

America is built, with FIXED non moving markers. The old Biblical injunction "Not to move the old landmarks" definitely comes to play here.
Document, and revise the descriptions, not the markers.

What's funny is that STJ above YIELDED to many other original surveyor marks around this same neighborhood, but rejected those ones. That is, it was not a consistent application of "Fix the mess". Other surveyors in this neighborhood also seem to try to "Fix some, and accept others" without a consistent pattern...

Still learning a lot about this site and surveying. I was reading the really long post (handling inaccuracies) too- you think I'm the Francis guy?

This thread reminds me of this song

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