In your state if you recover a monument (pipe, rebar, ect) that is unmarked and you accept it for a survey, do you have to apply your number to it?
Nope, no caps required in Illinois at all.
Not in Oregon, Washington, or Oklahoma.
You would not even be obliged to file a survey in Oregon on that basis alone. The trigger for filing in Oregon is the setting of monuments. You would be obliged to file a corner record in Oklahoma if it was a PLSS corner. Usually ignored. And, technically, you would be obliged to file a Record of Survey in Washington. Also commonly ignored.
> In your state if you recover a monument (pipe, rebar, ect) that is unmarked and you accept it for a survey, do you have to apply your number to it?
No, of course not. It's bad enough having to cut away the multiple layers of plastic flagging on some unidentified rebar to inspect the thing. Having to deal with a wreath of wired-on tags would only be worse.
> In your state if you recover a monument (pipe, rebar, ect) that is unmarked and you accept it for a survey, do you have to apply your number to it?
In California, I believe this has been settled as a "No." There were some County Surveyors who tried to require that found and accepted monuments be marked, but I think it was successfully challenged as not being required by statute.
I wasn't clear, if you accept an unmarked iron to use for a monument on the parcel you are surveying, do you then have to apply your stamp? This means a cap on existing rebar or rebar and cap inside a pipe, once a number is there you aren't required to keep adding numbers, a wired on tag is not allowed, nor are plastic caps.
> a wired on tag is not allowed, nor are plastic caps.
Both are allowed in CA.
> In your state if you recover a monument (pipe, rebar, ect) that is unmarked and you accept it for a survey, do you have to apply your number to it?
In Arizona, it is now required to do this if you do find and use a monument that has no identifying marks and also document it on a Record of Survey/or Corner Recovery form.
> I wasn't clear, if you accept an unmarked iron to use for a monument on the parcel you are surveying, do you then have to apply your stamp? This means a cap on existing rebar or rebar and cap inside a pipe, once a number is there you aren't required to keep adding numbers, a wired on tag is not allowed, nor are plastic caps.
Adding a new cap to an old rebar that was originally set without one is even a worse practice than wiring a tag onto the rebar. One important part of evaluating plain rebars is inspecting the pattern of deformations and the tool mark on the cut end to see whether they are in the same category as those of other rebars suspected of having been set as a part of the same survey. A cap makes that much more difficult to determine.
What is so difficult about the idea of actually preserving survey evidence? Sticking new caps on old rebars and pipes is just muddying the waters.
The scenario that Kent describes is exactly what is required in New Mexico.
MINIMU STANDARDS FOR SURVEYING IN NEW MEXICO
12.8.2.9 BOUNDARY SURVEYING
E. Tag found monuments which are accepted by the surveyor and pertain to the boundary being surveyed with a metal tag, bearing the surveyor’s license number, attached to the monument with a metal wire or strap; monuments set by a government agency which are clearly identified by their markings need not be tagged.
New Mexico is a recording state. I always assumed the rationale was that the tag could lead you to the PLS and then to the recorded plat.
What is so difficult about the idea of actually preserving survey evidence? Sticking new caps on old rebars and pipes is just muddying the waters.
Not my rule, been argued over and over.
Colorado Revised Statutes:
38-51-104. Monumentation of land surveys.
(1) (a) The corners of lots, tracts, other parcels of land, aliquot corners not described in subsection (4) of this section, and any line points or reference points which are set to perpetuate the location of any land boundary or easement shall, when established on the ground by a land survey, be marked by reasonably permanent markers solidly embedded in the ground.
(b) A durable cap bearing the license number of the professional land surveyor responsible for the establishment of the monument shall be affixed securely to the top of each such monument embedded pursuant to this subsection (1).
This is open to interpretation about what "establishment" means. If it is a subdivision plat most authorities will require the monument be capped. Personally, I choose to cap a found and accepted monument. Of course this is clarified in the legend or in a Surveyor's Report on the face of the plat. If properly noted this does nothing to obscure or destroy the history or provenance of a found monument.
The State Board Rules (6.4.2.3)specify that A properly stamped two-inch minimum diameter, durable metallic cap must be attached if the found monument has any of the following qualities:
(a) The monument has no cap.
(b) The monument has a cap other than a durable metallic cap.
(c) The monument has a cap with a diameter less that 1 1/2 inches.
plastic caps seem to last a couple of years here, usually they are either gone or illegible. So their use was disallowed
Nope.
"plastic caps seem to last a couple of years here, usually they are either gone or illegible. So their use was disallowed"
Plastic caps of a certain make (Morasse) are far more durable than metal caps in several areas where I work, primarily due to corrosion, but our State Society is attempting to pass new Minimum Standards prohibiting them...
> The State Board Rules (6.4.2.3)specify that A properly stamped two-inch minimum diameter, durable metallic cap must be attached if the found monument has any of the following qualities:
> (a) The monument has no cap.
> (b) The monument has a cap other than a durable metallic cap.
> (c) The monument has a cap with a diameter less that 1 1/2 inches.
[sarcasm]Rules are sometimes meant to be broken.[/sarcasm]
Let's remove that stone that has stood for 140 years and replace it.
The Rule I posted applies only to Establishing New Monuments or Upgrading Existing Monuments. A durable, identifiable stone does not need to be upgraded. As is normal whenever committees start making rules there are numerous opportunities for misinterpretation, misapplication and other misses!
I would not remove an original stone in good condition.
> Colorado Revised Statutes:
> 38-51-104. Monumentation of land surveys.
> (1) (a) The corners of lots, tracts, other parcels of land, aliquot corners not described in subsection (4) of this section, and any line points or reference points which are set to perpetuate the location of any land boundary or easement shall, when established on the ground by a land survey, be marked by reasonably permanent markers solidly embedded in the ground.
> (b) A durable cap bearing the license number of the professional land surveyor responsible for the establishment of the monument shall be affixed securely to the top of each such monument embedded pursuant to this subsection (1).
> This is open to interpretation about what "establishment" means. If it is a subdivision plat most authorities will require the monument be capped. Personally, I choose to cap a found and accepted monument. Of course this is clarified in the legend or in a Surveyor's Report on the face of the plat. If properly noted this does nothing to obscure or destroy the history or provenance of a found monument.
> The State Board Rules (6.4.2.3)specify that A properly stamped two-inch minimum diameter, durable metallic cap must be attached if the found monument has any of the following qualities:
> (a) The monument has no cap.
> (b) The monument has a cap other than a durable metallic cap.
> (c) The monument has a cap with a diameter less that 1 1/2 inches.
Board Rule 6.4 only applies to PLSS monuments. 38-51-104 and 38-51-105 apply to monuments that you SET. There are no requirements to attach your number to a found bare pipe or pin or to replace an original stone. However, there's no harm in doing so if it's clarified, as you stated. 🙂
Idaho only requires it for monuments set by the GLO or other agencies. Even then if the current Corner Record is good you can leave it as is. Beyond that I decide based on circumstance.
If I solve an issue or use evidence not apparent to those who follow, I want it memorialized and identifiable. On the flip side some supporting monuments are left alone, especially if they impact others. I prefer to leave that evidence in a way that allows detailed evaluation by the Surveyor for the affected parties.
An issue mentioned elsewhere in this thread is the replacement of stones. We are required to place magnetically detectable monuments stamped according to the Manual at some corners. As written some take it to mean the stone comes out. I prefer to drill the stone and epoxy a cap. It boggles my mind how something set during the Civil War (and still in place) is considered inferior to anything I can set...
> An issue mentioned elsewhere in this thread is the replacement of stones. We are required to place magnetically detectable monuments stamped according to the Manual at some corners. As written some take it to mean the stone comes out. I prefer to drill the stone and epoxy a cap. It boggles my mind how something set during the Civil War (and still in place) is considered inferior to anything I can set...
Here's the statute 55-1608(3):
When nonmetallic corner monuments were set in a survey conducted by an agency of the United States government, the corner location shall be remonumented with a monument conforming to the provisions of section 54-1227, Idaho Code, and shall be surmounted with a cap of such material and size that can be permanently and legibly marked as prescribed by the manual of surveying instructions issued by the United States department of the interior, bureau of land management, including the license number of the professional land surveyor responsible for placing the monument. Monuments shall be marked such that measurements between them may be made to the nearest one-tenth (0.1) foot.
I'm reading it that the stone must be "remonumented" per 54-1227, not just a cap placed.
But who knows, in Idaho, "any" means "all" ...... 😉
Don't even get me started on the meaning of the last sentence. :-S
