Monumentation In Concrete Pavers

drilling through the paver and setting a rod/bar w/ cap is the correct answer.

However (as you are aware) a larger number of corners will fall in, near or along an edge of a paver. Causing splitting, cracking and deterioration of the paver, leaving a less than attractive mark.

Other than a brass tag in the paver,
I'm not sure there are any other solutions.

Can you pull the pavers up, set the mark underneath and reset the pavers?

Given that anything you do "permanently" will probably eventually cause a crack in one of more of the pavers, I would suggest that you not "monument" that your work was the cause. The "temporary" marks in the pavers could be witnessed by monumentation nearby that is more permanent or stable.

Don't know the rules for your state, but I would opt for alternate (below your state's standards??) monumentation and explain the work in the notes of the drawing.

At least discuss your options with your client and let them authorize your work. Get it in writing what they prefer with their agreeing to not hold you responsible of cracks in the pavers if they approve the procedures you describe. Replacing cracked pavers will destroy your permanent monumentation, and matching the color in a couple of years may not be possible. Repair and or replacement cost to you wouldn't be worth the hassle.

Jim,

Are these points for actual corners or are they OffSets or Reference points?

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Just spit balling here
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But-

If they are OffSets;
Why not pull out another 5, 10, 20 feet beyond and set the rods in the Street?

Or push them in and set pins in concrete;
Say 5 feet into the yard?
And set a small "+" in the paver;

All referenced on the plat that will be deposited with the county and with the homeowners and/or the home owners association.

> I need to set lot corner monuments in a small subdivision in which 5 of the corners fall in an area covered with interlocking decorative concrete pavers. Each of the pavers is about 7"x4"x3". Even though the pavers are very tightly fit together, I don't consider them stable enough to provide sole support for a monument (e.g. a drilled & grouted disk).

Why wouldn't you set monuments in the top of the curb either along the prolongations of the lot lines or at some regular offsets? I'd think that a long rod and cap monument has the potential to rise above the paver surface if the paving subgrade settles. So unless you can anticipate how much to countersink the monument in the pavers, your name and license number will be a great help to the personal injury attorney you may be hearing from when the formerly flush marker rises to tripping height.

4-6" hole saw for the paver's, set concrete monument.:-)

I was thinking the same thing, if the pavers can be individually removed.
Then, of course, you'd have to paint a big florescent orange circle on the paver when you replace it so the next guy knows where to look.
😉

Don

Well considering the fact that Murphy's Law dictates that few if any of the points will be in the middle of a given block, and therefore you will probably end up at or near a joint in most cases...

I would suggest carefully drilling a 3/16in. diameter hole, 3/16in. deep at each “point.” A hole this small (and shallow) is highly unlikely to cause a crack (unless you do it in the drilling of the hole itself).

Put a small drop of epoxy in the hole, and drop a copper plated BB into the hole. This BB will of course have a datum point, your name, PLS Number, telephone number, business name and address micro-engraved into it.

BTW...Be sure the in engraved top of the BB is pointing UP, so that someone with a [really good] magnifying glass can read it.

🙂
Loyal

The situation is complicated by the fact that the subdivision map -- already filed -- anticipated concrete driveways, and states that 1" brass disks (the Berntsen type with the plastic sleeve) will be set at the corners. The change to pavers was made after the map was filed.

Since the original idea isn't going to work very well, I'll have to file a Corner Record to reflect the change from the originally-proposed monumentation no matter what I do. Given that, I think the idea of setting offsets in the flush concrete curbing surrounding the pavers is probably the next best thing.

In the sketch below, the lot lines are shown in magenta, and the pavers (not to scale) are indicated by hatching. I can set tangent-over ties for most of the interior corners; the one at the easterly terminus of the line dividing the entrance driveway will have to be referenced to offline monuments.

I'll have to get the developer to agree to whatever I do, and he's not too survey-savvy. I might have a hard time convincing him that reference monuments are the way to go, but it's worth a try.

Thanks for all the responses.

Experiment with an identical paver at home. First shoot the final locations and place a small felt tip mark at each to determine if any will fall particularly close to an edge of a paver. Place similar marks on your pavers. Drill the smallest hole you can get to actually make it all the way through the paver without doing any other damage. Determine the ability to creat a slight countersink on the surface to allow a disk, as required, to be inserted slightly lower than level with top of the paver. If this works, then make your holes in the client's pavers. Insert a slim steel rod, or even a drill bit of the appropriate size into the hole to provide a metallic signal. Then epoxy the disk into the countersunk hole.

If 1-inch disks are specified, go ahead and place them UNDER the pavers. Set reference marks to help people find the line.

I will say good luck to trying to pull the pavers up if they are tight. What if they replace some pavers in the future? The hole saw sounds like a good idea but I would go with something smaller. Maybe just over the size of your cap and sink it just under the paver surface. You could throw in some UGL prior to sinking

Jim,

It sounds like Core Drill job to me

You will get precise and clean cuts
Plus a finished product that looks good and will stand the test of time

Dill your hole

-Set your rebar & cap
-Finish & fill w/ concrete

or

-Set concrete only & set tag

or

-Heck, why not set a nice 31/2" brass cap
-professionally stamped w/ lot numbers
-and your company name in it

In San Diego a Certificate of Correction detailing the final monumentation scheme is common, and should suffice in your case.

I see no need to set Any of the monuments that fall in the pavers. Who would use them, and for what? Setting line points near the curb may be of use by the home owners, but setting markers in the "street" serve no one at all.

...but some surveyors like to set monuments out of habit... in my opinion it is just a waste of time and money.

Have to agree with 6th and core drill it. I would also get some sort of disclaimer as to potential damage from the owner before proceeding. I'm always very hesitant to destroy something just to set a property corner.

> Can you pull the pavers up, set the mark underneath and reset the pavers?

That was also my thought.

> > Can you pull the pavers up, set the mark underneath and reset the pavers?

There are two reasons this option isn't appealing to me:

1. The resulting monuments would be too hard to access. I don't expect much use, at least not in the near term, but I'm still reluctant to intentionally hide them.

2. Removing and replacing the pavers looks mighty tricky to me. The sides have interlocking grooves, and the gaps are filled with course sand. Even if I could remove one without damage, I'm not sure I could get it back into place correctly.

That's what I do, it works fine.

It's kinda like a well box.

Core drilling is what we have done. It works well if you do it right.