GMPLS, post: 448942, member: 8404 wrote: The one big item I bought new when I started up this year was a Focus 35 robot. I put $3k down and my payments are $353 per month. I don't regret it at all and it's made me enough money since June to get me through to May, even if I don't get anymore work.
Gregg
And that's one thing that today's money buys that it didn't in the mid-90's and that's autonomy. I know that's not entirely true, there are guys that were solo operators then, but it wasn't like today. A new guy starting out can buy equipment that keeps him from needing people, which are the most expensive part of running a business.
Whether it's RTK or robotics or even a total station with a great reflectorless capability, a man can do a lot on his own, which is so important to keeping overhead low.
Office and logistical equipment and software has also come down A LOT. I work from a nice laptop that I paid $1200 for (if memory serves correctly). I have about $2k in software on it. This is my CAD and office software. In the mid-90's this was $10-15k that I now have for $2-3k with a tenfold increase in performance. My printer cost $200 new. That was easily $2k in the mid-90's.
My office phone is my cell phone. I have email, voice mail, camera, calendar, etc.
I can "office" out of a closet if I needed.
It's a great time to be a surveyor.
[QUOTEIt's a great time to be a surveyor.
It is so...
Optical square
Real brass pearshaped plumbob
HP41CX
plus obvious other requirements to measure and record stuff electronically.
A decent robust Windows based surveying software that doesn't crash, froth at the gills. Just works and works and works.......
Shawn Billings, post: 448946, member: 6521 wrote: Office and logistical equipment and software has also come down A LOT.
It's a great time to be a surveyor.
It is so...
Just my story here. Started my company 2 1/2 years ago. Sold my house, another 5 acres for cash. Took out all of my 401k which was $38k, took out business loan for 60k. Had over 100k cash for equipping 3 crews. And 3 office people including myself. Had 2 bigger clients lined up but we wouldn't get paid for 2-3 months. So I planned to have cash flow for 3 months and took out loans where I could. Took all local jobs I could to get quick cash. I still ran out of cash within 6 weeks. Didn't pay any of my bills with repo threats. My family was living on bare minimum for awhile. had to get a line of credit from another bank up to 50k and ran out of that as well. Had to ask a couple guys to not cash checks for a week. It was terrible. But now looking back it was all worth it. Now running 5 crews and I need more but just don't have the time. I literally work 6 1/2 days a week as it is now.
I started my business January of 2013. Took a loan for a gun and cad, sold a personal car for a truck down payment and had someone loan me some cash. Today I am almost paid off. After I started getting cash saved up for a couple of months I started expanding via cash buying.
Anyway getting back to the original topic. 🙂
Today to run effectively I need/have:
5 of the brightest, hard working and dedicated LSITs or pre LSITs people I know.
Two guns
Two trucks 4x4 loaded and logos (another topic)
Two auto levels
Two gps network rovers
A couple sets of digging tools
Two yellows sticks
Two 36volt Makita demo hammers (life savers)
4 cad stations with cad.
4 laptops for out of town
A plotter
Two printers (cause one is always acting like it works for the competition)
An office location
A VoIP phone system (surprisingly cheap and email voicemails are great for LS's that like to dig holes)
An ice machine
Things I have for R&D AKA fun but are used for work
Two DJI drones
Pix4D
Leica Cyclone (amazingly expensive)
Remembering that it all started with a truck with no cover, a total station, one seat of CAD and a prayer that all of the people that I had worked with in the past really did give me the projects because they liked my product and working with me and not out of a loyalty to the companies I worked previously at.
Jim Frame, post: 448931, member: 10 wrote: I usually work all day out of a Foldit cart in those instances.
That looks like a stout cart. Did you build a box for it?
What do you carry in it on a typical job (if there is such a thing)?
Can't you do mortgage surveys without ANY equipment?
JKinAK, post: 448955, member: 7219 wrote: That looks like a stout cart. Did you build a box for it?
What do you carry in it on a typical job (if there is such a thing)?
I don't use a box with the cart. My campus and urban jobs are almost all topos or boundaries, so I typically carry a robotic total station in its case, tripod, prism pole with prism, brace stick, 3 traffic cones, data collector, security cables and padlock. Everything else goes in my vest (25-foot tape, topo shoe and bypass pruner, plus the usual complement of pencils, scale, markers, etc.). Sometimes I'll throw in a water bottle, and on days that start out cold I can stash my peeled-off layers in the cart as the day warms up. If I need to stake something (which I pretty much only do on boundary jobs), I add the requisite monument materials.
On topos, when it comes time to open manholes I swap out the other gear for a sledgehammer, manhole pick, 25-foot leveling rod, disinfectant wipes, and more cones.
I'm usually able to park the truck within a 5-minute walk, so it's not a big deal if I have to go back to get something.
I've been using the cart for about 6 years now, and it's worked out really well. Without it I'd have to do a lot more walking back and forth schlepping equipment, and I'd have to leave some of it unsecured as I did so. With the cart I'm able to lock up all the expensive bits that I'm not carrying with me. (That does mean that I have to carry the pole, data collector and brace stick into the bathroom when I need to answer nature's call. I get some interesting looks at times.)
What? Have you no trees or bushes? Or little gaps between this shed and that shed?
I started a business a little over 4 years ago. I had started purchasing equipment a little at a time about 8 months before that. I rented a robot for the first 2-3 jobs that I did but I bought the very basic, crude tools (hammers, chisel, shovel, small cordless hammer drill and a cordless angle grinder, etc.). I used a friends CAD program/computer to complete the drafting. I then used the proceeds from that to buy a tripod, prism pole, bipod, metal detector and a used Topcon 802 robot along with a TDS Ranger that was running Carlson SurvCE on it. I also bought a Zeiss Ni2 for leveling and a seat of Carlson Survey (intellicad). I bought a used computer on eBay for about $200. It was a solid computer for the work that I did. All in I was around $8000 at that point. Then I bought a used SUV for about $4500 when the money allowed. I worked out of my house and upgraded as money allowed. After the vehicle I bought a new GEOMAX Zenith 25 and then a new Trimble S3. I then decided that I did not like the GEOMAX and bought a Spectra Epoch50 and kept the GEOMAX as a base.
So a list of what one needs IMO
Hammers, shovel, chisels, machete, brush hook, manhole hook, cordless hammer drill and bits, angle grinder with blades, traverse nails, masonry nails (MAG), caps, shiners, rebar, lathes, flagging, paint, tripod, rods (2), bipods (2), auto-level, fiberglass level rod, robot, data collector, field software, 360 prism, standard prism, computer, two monitors drafting software, filing cabinet, Officelibre (or Microsoft Office), work truck, box for equipment.
If you aren't going out alone and prefer a conventional total station, skip the robot. If you live in an area that has a VRS network set up then take advantage of it and buy a $10,000 (or less) network rover (with radio) and add a better network rover later. Then you will have two network rovers and if you desire then you can use them as a base/rover configuration.
Buy/upgrade as you can. Don't get in a rush. Take your time and enjoy it.
If I had to do it right now, I think I could get by for about 30k startup...
6-7k SUV
10-12k Robot ebay
3-5k GPS ebay
$500 rugged windows tablet ebay
And the rest in regular survey hardware/tools, software and supplies.
The feeling of not having a backup for any thing is scary but thats what friends are for?
Holy Cow, post: 448984, member: 50 wrote: What? Have you no trees or bushes? Or little gaps between this shed and that shed?
On rural jobs no problem, bu on campus and in town, pretty much not. Landscape planners seem to design spaces that can be patrolled from the seat of a police cruiser, with very few spots that might provide cover for transients to camp or surveyors to pee.
Jason Graves, post: 448992, member: 9531 wrote: I started a business a little over 4 years ago. I had started purchasing equipment a little at a time about 8 months before that. I rented a robot for the first 2-3 jobs that I did but I bought the very basic, crude tools (hammers, chisel, shovel, small cordless hammer drill and a cordless angle grinder, etc.). I used a friends CAD program/computer to complete the drafting. I then used the proceeds from that to buy a tripod, prism pole, bipod, metal detector and a used Topcon 802 robot along with a TDS Ranger that was running Carlson SurvCE on it. I also bought a Zeiss Ni2 for leveling and a seat of Carlson Survey (intellicad). I bought a used computer on eBay for about $200. It was a solid computer for the work that I did. All in I was around $8000 at that point. Then I bought a used SUV for about $4500 when the money allowed. I worked out of my house and upgraded as money allowed. After the vehicle I bought a new GEOMAX Zenith 25 and then a new Trimble S3. I then decided that I did not like the GEOMAX and bought a Spectra Epoch50 and kept the GEOMAX as a base.
So a list of what one needs IMO
Hammers, shovel, chisels, machete, brush hook, manhole hook, cordless hammer drill and bits, angle grinder with blades, traverse nails, masonry nails (MAG), caps, shiners, rebar, lathes, flagging, paint, tripod, rods (2), bipods (2), auto-level, fiberglass level rod, robot, data collector, field software, 360 prism, standard prism, computer, two monitors drafting software, filing cabinet, Officelibre (or Microsoft Office), work truck, box for equipment.If you aren't going out alone and prefer a conventional total station, skip the robot. If you live in an area that has a VRS network set up then take advantage of it and buy a $10,000 (or less) network rover (with radio) and add a better network rover later. Then you will have two network rovers and if you desire then you can use them as a base/rover configuration.
Buy/upgrade as you can. Don't get in a rush. Take your time and enjoy it.
Good job, Jason. I whole-heartedly agree with your perspective. I have no doubt you will succeed in your endeavors.
I'll play since i just started my own business.
I am in for about $37,000 right now. That includes:
Topcon GT-350 robot
Sokkia Bullet
Topcon Data collector tablet
tripod prism pole etc.
Carlson
New laptop
Quickbooks
Misc supplies.
I took out a loan for all of the equipment and will only have a ~$650 a month note once i start making full payments on the equipment. Right now I am paying interest only on the note for the first 6 months. I did not put anything down on the loan as i wanted to keep as much cash as possible available to pay bills and such while I am getting started up. So far i have pulled in enough to pay my bills each month.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 448909, member: 291 wrote: And, let's be mildly "cost concious".
But, let's make it one you'd like.
Make it just right.
Thanks.
I'll do mine later... Kids have me for a while.
N
Okay, Here is what I have to date as I have been slowly gather equipment:
Nikon DTM 330 5"
TDS ranger
Tripod
2 prism poles
bi-pod
Yellow Stick
All handtools
Traverse PC - Premium
Dell PC
Microsoft Office
SUV
3 State licenses
Vehicle-ATV-software-computer-GPS-TS-Level-locator-digging tools
I'm basically solo and do mostly rural boundary surveys
2006 Silverado with utility bed
Polaris 500
TBC- use it all the way to finished plat. No other CAD or surveying software needed.
Also word processor, spreadsheets and accounting (Quickbooks Pro).
HP workstation.
Trimble R10 and TSC3 ?? VRS ?? use an associates base once in a while.
Trimble M3 total station, reflectorless, my mountain transit.
DiNi 10 digital level, wish I had a newer model.
Magnetic detector and shovels, etc
I was going to make a list of tools, and software, to make a good business.
But, as I considered it, the number one thing we need is an education, with practical experience. So we use the right tool, for the job.
I'm self taught autocad. But, I have never used paper space. If I had that, I'd go faster. Here's an example, where I'm behind.
I have other areas where I'm behind.
This forum has been an invaluable resource, in keeping up.
I have learned to survey solo, and with a crew. I know many things. I can run tall stakes, reflectorless.
What about the Javad? Well, there are things I still don't know how to do. F2f. Linework. Other shortcuts.
Drones. Photogrametry.
If you are tds/trimble trained, f2f. Or carlson. Microsurvey. You probably have not learned ALL of it.
Many of us learn enough... To get by, but never achieve FULL proficiency.
Enough to get licensed. And produce surveys.
But, time, and technology moves on... We take what we learned, in our previous employment. Which, is limited...
So, if I were alot smarter, I'd be much better off.
And...
Some of us will be fine with a total station, others will need a robot. I haven't used my total station in a while.
I'm arguing that we have all learned...enough to get by... But to some extent, it's our rut. We fall prey to the 3g's of surveying.
Get the job.
Get it done.
Get on to the next.
And, we don't know... What we don't know.
Knowing what I now know... Starting a new business, right now, I would NOT even think of "start cheap". I'd start up with a 3-5k pickup,(Or a Dodge Dart!)
A tripod, tribrach, and such.
Prism pole, and bipod.
Metal detector, an assortment of digging tools, and hammers.
A small used atv. 4wd. Maybe a Polaris 850, with power steering.
Trailer. Javad GPS.
Carlson software, printer. Office building.
All of it, less than 35-50k.
But, I argue that struggling with older, less efficient equipment, is ok, for the truck, atv, and many things. Used computer is ok. But not the GPS.
I dream of the day when we get to a job, fire up a drone, fly it 1st. Download the pics. Stitch the pics. And install the resulting image into a little tablet pc, or into our data collector, to pick the best path to the corners we need to visit.
We have too long, been 2nd rate professionals.
The one gig, that will always get work is low prices. But, that becomes our downfall. Now, we have a business model, built on rolling over, to others, realtors, or whatever.
This is digging our collective professional grave. We take advantage of our employees.
I used to do lots of tie line, ON MY OWN TIME, working for my dad, because he underpriced the project.
We are teaching our next generation of surveyors shortcuts. Ones that are hurting our profession. I've been to seminars, on GLO retracement, where all kinds of shortcuts were applied, to whole townships. Zig zags, stub offs. I'm referring to the original GLO surveys.
We have alot of work to do, to get the whole profession on track.
We now have at our disposal, some of the finest survey equipment ever.
But, many of us don't know how to use a data collector, or GPS. Or, we LEARNED GPS abuse, at our last place of employment, before getting licensed. GPS abuse, is rampant.
We have much work ahead of us.
I dream of a day, when we will see only good work.
Right tools, right job.
Education. Knowledge. Experience.
I'd like to take a month off, to learn more stuff. Or 6 mos.
I'm gonna be 52 this month. Our 1st grandbaby was born, a month ago.
Big Help, is down in Texas. Working in hurricane cleanup. He's got a gal, in his mind. Bought her a ring. I'm proud of him.
Time marches on.
My biggest weak spot is plat drawing.
I'm slow. But, the plats are nice.
I need to go to Carlson school. How to do it better...
I want to encourage everyone, there's more ahead. Lot's more! Don't take the MISTAKES you have learned, from your past, and where you worked as a early surveyor, and PRACTICE your business based on those shortcuts. Instead, learn new things. And, upgrade the entire profession, when you get your license. It's a great day to be a surveyor. And, even better day to become part of the solution, not the problem.
Education (learn more tools, and ways to do things)
Experience (doing it right)
Practice. (make it your lifelong habit)
It's YOU that is your most important tool. Don't neglect YOU. Your Business is YOU.
Nate
How about... employee? Benefits? Insurance? Cost of running the office? Mental costs? For a one man shoppe, actual surveying is only a fraction of the time involved in a job once you include research, drafting, client coordination and looking for new work. All these items seem to make running a small business quite a pain.
