I am a student doing geomatics engineering ( land surveying) . What is the difference between land surveyor and a geomatics engineer?.
buttons on a shirt?
Legally in California they are the same thing, both are reserved titles.
flyin solo, post: 326886, member: 8089 wrote: buttons on a shirt?
I don't get that
Dave Karoly, post: 326887, member: 94 wrote: Legally in California they are the same thing, both are reserved titles.
Okay thanks. And lets say if you want to become a land surveyor. Between a 4 years BSc Eng in Geomatics and a 3 years Bachelor in Geomatics which one would you recommend?. Is there a difference in the work environment?
4 year Geomatics Engineering for sure. My niece is going to Fresno State, I tried to talk her into Geomatics because you are virtually guaranteed a job on graduation, but no go :-(.
I am guessing that flying solo's remark was in reference to the difference between a t-shirt and a button up collared shirt, the former being for the land surveyor and the latter for the geomatics engineer.
Following is a quote from the "Introduction" to chapter 5, in "The 3-D Global Spatial Data Model" written by me and published by CRC Press in 2008.
"Geodesy is geomatics and geomatics is geodesy. Well, not really. Geomatics is a fairly new umbrella term being used to describe both a body of knowledge and the scope of professional activities having to do with generation, manipulation, storage and use of spatial data. In a nonexclusive way, geomatics includes traditional disciplines such as surveying, mapping, geodesy, and photogrammetry. It also overlaps with newer disciplines such as remote sensing, imaging, and information sciences."
Maujakakana Rutjani, post: 326890, member: 10192 wrote: Okay thanks. And lets say if you want to become a land surveyor. Between a 4 years BSc Eng in Geomatics and a 3 years Bachelor in Geomatics which one would you recommend?. Is there a difference in the work environment?
It depends on the country. If you want to work in the US as a land surveyor, you will find the requirements to become licensed vary. There are no 3 year bachelor degrees in the US, so such a degree would necessarily be foreign. You would then have to find out if the state you are interested in accepts foreign degrees at all, and if so, which process they recognize for evaluating foreign degrees. A degree-evaluation process might nor might not recognize a three year foreign bachelor degree as equivalent to a US bachelor degree accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology.
Schools also name their programs for policy reasons. I completed a program called Geospatial Surveying Engineering. Having 'engineering' in the title provides access to STEM funding. So the name is policy, accreditation, and marketing.
Being licensed as both an engineer and as a land surveyor my thought is that there should be a world of difference between the two.
To include the word 'engineer' there must be a full four or five year course of studies including the rigorous courses required of all engineering graduates regardless of specialization. Most of those courses have absolutely no link to the world of land surveying. Physics and mathematics classes, yes. Thermodynamics, dynamics, chemistry, statics, mechanics of materials, circuit theory and similar common requirements for all engineering curricula choices, no.
Similarly, the vast majority of courses that should be required for a four year degree in land surveying should be of practically no value to all engineering disciplines with the exception of civil and one or two others.
Holy Cow, post: 326942, member: 50 wrote: Being licensed as both an engineer and as a land surveyor my thought is that there should be a world of difference between the two.
To include the word 'engineer' there must be a full four or five year course of studies including the rigorous courses required of all engineering graduates regardless of specialization. Most of those courses have absolutely no link to the world of land surveying. Physics and mathematics classes, yes. Thermodynamics, dynamics, chemistry, statics, mechanics of materials, circuit theory and similar common requirements for all engineering curricula choices, no.
Similarly, the vast majority of courses that should be required for a four year degree in land surveying should be of practically no value to all engineering disciplines with the exception of civil and one or two others.
If it's not an engineering field then why is it required to be ABET accredited? Let's drop the ABET accredidation, get it out of the state engineering licensing boards, and get NCEES out of the testing. Then the term surveying engineering will be inappropriate....JMO
Maujakakana Rutjani, post: 326884, member: 10192 wrote: I am a student doing geomatics engineering ( land surveying) . What is the difference between land surveyor and a geomatics engineer?.
Didn't mean to steal your thread - best of luck to you in your studies:stakeout: Where are you located? What school? A colleague just did several stints in Zimbabwe and Nigeria setting up GIS/LIS systems for various districts and helping them develop a land administration system. The lack of a LIS is a major problem that impedes investment and development in many developing countries (and sometimes the developed ones). He had some really good stories and I always enjoyed his providing many of the newspaper headlines. I thought they were very similar to many of the US and UK tabloid headlines.
geonerd, post: 326999, member: 8268 wrote: Didn't mean to steal your thread - best of luck to you in your studies:stakeout: Where are you located? What school? A colleague just did several stints in Zimbabwe and Nigeria setting up GIS/LIS systems for various districts and helping them develop a land administration system. The lack of a LIS is a major problem that impedes investment and development in many developing countries (and sometimes the developed ones). He had some really good stories and I always enjoyed his providing many of the newspaper headlines. I thought they were very similar to many of the US and UK tabloid headlines.
thats good to hear. I worked in GIS for some time then i got tired of being in the computer all day and i decided to go the surveying route hence im here studying geomatics. I am studying at University of New Brunswick, Canada. i am from Namibia, not very far from Zimbabwe though. Yes from what i know there is a lot to be developed in terms of land administration in particular the southern africa area where i come from.
For Geonerd:
ABET reaches far beyond just engineering. Land surveying falls into the engineering technology category. That category was created to bridge the gap between craftsmen and professionals, but far closer to the professional side of things. It largely was created by universities initially to increase enrollment without significantly adding to staff. Once it began to grow, they had to drastically increase staffing.
For example, here is a curriculum required for a plastics engineering major.
https://www.uml.edu/Catalog/Undergraduate/Engineering/Departments/Plastics-Engineering/Degree-Pathways/DP-plastics-standard-track.aspx
Here is a comparable curriculum for a plastics engineering technology major:
First two years are the general A. A. S. with watered-down requirements
http://catalog.ferris.edu/catalog/2014-2015/program/3130
followed by two years of the technology program
http://catalog.ferris.edu/catalog/2014-2015/program/2959
The classes may have similar sounding names but the content is far less rigorous and some of the upper level classes here are similar to the lower level classes in the engineering curricula.
Both plastics engineering and plastics engineering technology are very worthwhile careers. The biggest difference is the pay scale over a lifetime. Each specialization is a great career.
Does a Geomatics Engineer learn property line location techniques?
Maujakakana Rutjani, post: 327001, member: 10192 wrote: thats good to hear. I worked in GIS for some time then i got tired of being in the computer all day and i decided to go the surveying route hence im here studying geomatics. I am studying at University of New Brunswick, Canada. i am from Namibia, not very far from Zimbabwe though. Yes from what i know there is a lot to be developed in terms of land administration in particular the southern africa area where i come from.
I have heard nothing but good things about the UNB program - best of luck to you Maujakakana. If you have any questions there are plenty of people here to help:-)
EFBURKHOLDER, post: 326897, member: 1856 wrote: "Geomatics is a fairly new umbrella term being used to describe both a body of knowledge and the scope of professional activities having to do with generation, manipulation, storage and use of spatial data. In a nonexclusive way, geomatics includes traditional disciplines such as surveying, mapping, geodesy, and photogrammetry. It also overlaps with newer disciplines such as remote sensing, imaging, and information sciences."
Sounds like measuring, manipulating, and reporting data - a.k.a. Surveying. Remote sensing, imaging, and information sciences are all technologies used for measuring and reporting spatial data. Surveying was not given a new name when surveyors started using Doppler or GPS, nor when we made the transition from hand drafting to CAD. Although other vocations use the principles of geodesy, it has always been intricately a part of surveying. When I took your geodesy class, it was while I was a student in the Land Surveying degree program at OIT (excellent course and excellent instructor by the way).
Despite the explanations that geomatics is this broader umbrella that encompasses surveying and so much more, I've never been able to see it that way. All the new things encompassed are just newer ways of doing more of what surveyors have always done, not completely new roles never contemplated by surveyors. I've always seen the change from Land Surveying to Geomatics in the academic world as marketing and nothing more, and have held the opinion since first hearing the term and the explanation of the differences that anyone who believed there was a difference was kidding themselves.
foggyidea, post: 327013, member: 155 wrote: Does a Geomatics Engineer learn property line location techniques?
In my observation, generally less so than a graduate of a surveying degree, largely because of the additional engineering related content required for the ABET EAC accreditation. Neither type of degree will cover them adequately for the graduate to hit the ground running as a boundary surveyor. However, if one resolves to continue learning after graduation, after a few years it makes little to no difference. A person who graduates figuring that they've learned all they'll ever need to learn about surveying is a danger to the stability of boundaries and title. A geomatic engineering grad with that mindset will be a little more harmful that an LS graduate with the same mindset.
gschrock, post: 327112, member: 556 wrote: Maujakakana,
UNB has an amazing program, and many noted surveyors, instructors and product developers hail from UNB (as well as University of Calgary and York). Many surveyors consider boundary surveying as the only true form of surveying, and it is quite true that boundary surveying requires specific skills and experience that are far from causally attained. Should you choose to pursue boundary surveying past your studies and UNB there will of course be much more to learn. But that can be said of many disciplines. The program at UNB is very much like those in Europe and other parts of the world that typically have substantial academic requirements for surveying (boundary and other). There are US states that do not require a degree, but that require substantial experience and examinations not only in fundamentals but also state specific boundary considerations.
As you noted, the field of land administration is expanding in developing parts of Africa, Asia, South America as well. Plus so much development, construction, resources, utilizes, and more. There are compelling needs for skills beyond just boundary to meet those needs. Multiple elements of surveying and other geospatial sciences are being employed to meet those need - and not just the developing world - in developed parts of Europe, Asia, Africa, the Americas (including US and Canada) the drivers for efficiency and cost savings are seeing a strong need for people educated and experienced in such fields.
Despite the reservations folks have about titles (geomatics tends to rub boundary surveyors the wrong way and that is understandable), programs like that at UNB are kind of like medical school... a solid foundation for further specialization. And there are a lot of multi-discipline firms that are hungry for such a broad foundation.Best wishes on your studies - you are in good company. Dr. Langley is one of the most respected educators in the Americas; you'l learn much from the whole team at UNB.
Thanks a lot. And i like the program and UNB.
If you are in the program and like it, then get the ABET degree. It might not mean much to you now but it could make a difference in the future. It did for me.
I still remember Langley chewing some poor kid out because he didn't know what the graph of a TAN function looked like.
