I've been looking at my face in the mirror almost every day for a long time; longer than most of you and not as long as a few. I didn't see the subtle changes that occurred each day, and so I didn't realize until fairly recently how old I must appear. I now know that the young women aren't smiling at me because they think I'm hot. They're being nice to me because I'm old. It's sometimes hard for me to accept that I've reached old age, but other times I'm grateful and happy for the things I've had the time to learn.
I'm also happy that I've had the opportunity to teach. An example is a young PLS near here that I can remember showing how to set up a tripod. He wasn't a college graduate with inflated notions of his worth; just a kid with good instincts in the woods and an innate ability for math that hadn't previously been disclosed. I didn’t pass the test for him, he did that entirely on his own abilities and determination, but I showed him the possibility and I’m proud of that.
Yes, I’m a dinosaur that has seen a lot of refinement in measurement over the years, (and I guess the kids can help you with that) but I’ve seen no advances in professionalism out of academia yet.
I apologize for seeming harsh earlier on the weekend in Joe the Surveyor’s thread “So I Said to the College Trainee”; this is all I meant to say, and Joe, of course, meant no mischief at all.
Don
I hear you Don. I went through a four year degree and with 4 years of experianced got my PLS. From start to finish it took me about 7 years. I hate how surveyors like everyone group college grads together, kids with inflated notions of their worth. In my four year degree we took a lot of law, business, financial, and accounting classes as well as surveying. And low and behold we didn't touch anything electronic until the late 2nd or 3rd class, it was all compass, transits, p/a table, chain, tape, level, etc until then.
A few things I remember and my view on things; considerations are negiotable, you don't set your worth, your potential employer does - after all they are the ones with the money. If a company needs someone to cut line, they will pay anybody 12$/hr to cut line, drunk/BS/PHD, doesn't matter. If a company sees that they need someone with a good surveying and business foundation then they will pay better for that person, therfore they are worth more to the company; least squares adjustments come free of charge.
In my field time I spent countless months on the road with guys who dropped out of high school/elementary school. They are great guys, and a few even call themselves surveyors (that's for another rant), a lot of them have their PLSs.
I spent four years digging through books, studying, running calcs, learning the basics of surveying. I spent $40k to $50k to get my education and I had bills to pay; my degree showed my employers that the could take me seriously, I had spent this time/money trying to get a start in surveying. They were not wasting their time, even if they hired me as a rod/instrument man. I was in it for the long haul, I have the drive and discipline, I wouldn't jump ship when the new paper mill opened and payed $3/hour more than they did.
Don, I am not bashing anyone's opinion, this is just my view on things.
Don
If my response to you seemed like I was flaming you I apologize. I worked for 8 years as a crew member before I went back to school and got my degree. Some of the best licensed surveyors I know do not have a degree. In school I learned a lot about WHY some of the things we do work and I also learned that there are other things in life besides cutting line and digging holes (Although they are of great importance). I was exposed to ideas that I would not have without a college education. We, as a profession, need to fully support education while REQUIRING future surveyors to gain the invaluable experience to refine that knowledge.
By the way, I think my mirror must be kin to yours. That puffy, wrinkled face topped by white hair CAN'T be mine.
Andy
Don, we all get carried away sometimes
> ...I hate how surveyors like everyone group college grads together, kids with inflated notions of their worth.
Yes this idea/line of thought runs rampant; and in some cases is true, but still an over-generalization. For instance, the company I work for employs 2 young men, fresh out of a 4 year degree program. They are as different as day and night. One of them knew he had a lot to learn and the other one thought he knew it all. At the beginning, no one could teach him anything. Ask him, he was ready to be licensed. Now, a year or so later, although he still has the inflated notion of worth, is beginning to realize he has much to learn.
I know the feeling! Every now and then I will be walking through a department store or a Wal-Mart or something and I catch a glimpse of this old man in a mirror, and I think “…holy s… when did that happen”? 🙂
I argue with that ugly SOB almost every morning. I'm still not sure who he is or why he's on the other side of that mirror. There used to be a young fellow over there who encouraged me to explore the world of wine, women and song. Now, the only thing left is the whine.
Reminds me of an old classic...
Not for nothing Don, but if you shaved the scraggly beard & put away that wine bottle, you'd look a little less disheveled 😉
Don,
If I'm ever in Yosemite, I'll look you up, we'll go grab an adult beverage.
If you're ever in SW Connecticut, offer still stands.
I was enjoying a beverage with a friend of mine when I noticed a couple of older guys sitting on the other side of the bar. I nudged my buddy and said, that's us in about 10 years. He looked at me and said, you idiot, that's a mirror.....;-)
Cheers,
Radar
Excellent post Dublin, and your experience is much the same as mine. Worked in the field, then went to college, then more work !! Still working at it every day!
One of my favorite songs:
[flash width=420 height=315] http://www.youtube.com/v/ouP-OGcxXSk?version=3&hl=en_US [/flash]
I tend not to follow the words of a lot of songs (melody, harmony, rhythm, instrumental arrangements, oh yeah, there are words, too), but this guy writes songs that connect with me. The CD arrangement with full band is of course much better than the YouTube.
Good post, Dublin.
Don
