" ; thence N 59å¡33'42" E, 450.00' (T) to a point to commence a pincushion"
MightyMoe, post: 367200, member: 700 wrote: After all, it's not called the "point of beginning" for nothing
Yes, for the fenceline surveyors, shouldn't that be the POST of Beginning? For the surveys that provide no rationale for the boundary location, I suppose it would be "Beginning at the first and last corner of the tract I am surveying from which numbers run in all directions ..."
Kent McMillan, post: 367208, member: 3 wrote: Yes, for the fenceline surveyors, shouldn't that be the POST of Beginning? For the surveys that provide no rationale for the boundary location, I suppose it would be "Beginning at the first and last corner of the tract I am surveying from which numbers run in all directions ..."
Beginning at a point, said point being the Point of Beginning;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
I am jealous Kent. At least you have points.
I encountered this one lately:
A 50 foot wide right of way, the centerline of which is currently surveyed and staked.
(The deed was dated 1910)
I just drove the 4 lane roadway..... I swear there weren't any centerline stakes.
Kent McMillan, post: 367154, member: 3 wrote: "BEGINNING at a 3/4-inch diameter iron rod found ON A POINT in the northerly right-of-way line"
Maybe the 3/4" rod is a vertical witness to this point? If they'd only recorded the damn map so we could get a better feel for the intent?
The point is on the pointy end of the 60d spike.
Dave Karoly, post: 367322, member: 94 wrote: The point is on the pointy end of the 60d spike.
Well, it wasn't:
"BEGINNING at a 60d Nail found on a point in the TOP OF A FENCE POST", but
"BEGINNING at a 60d Nail found in the TOP OF A FENCE POST on a point ...".
So, the fence post was clearly on top of the point and I'm thinking the hole may have been dug BESIDE THE POINT and the point just fell into it at some time before the post was placed on top of it and backfilled. I keep checking the Schonstedt Company's product line, but the Point Detector is apparently still in development.
Kent McMillan, post: 367336, member: 3 wrote: Well, it wasn't:
"BEGINNING at a 60d Nail found on a point in the TOP OF A FENCE POST", but
"BEGINNING at a 60d Nail found in the TOP OF A FENCE POST on a point ...".
So, the fence post was clearly on top of the point and I'm thinking the hole may have been dug BESIDE THE POINT and the point just fell into it at some time before the post was placed on top of it and backfilled. I keep checking the Schonstedt Company's product line, but the Point Detector is apparently still in development.
I think the point is at the end of the 60 inside the fence post.
This is obviously the work of the Texas Stretch-a-Fence Company.
Dave Karoly, post: 367339, member: 94 wrote: I think the point is at the end of the 60 inside the fence post.
Well as Oliver Wendell Holmes put it in his restatement of the English Common Law, the main legal question is: "Which came first, the Fence Post or the Point?" Everything else follows from that simple test.
Kent McMillan, post: 367348, member: 3 wrote: Well as Oliver Wendell Holmes put it in his restatement of the English Common Law, the main legal question is: "Which came first, the Fence Post or the Point?" Everything else follows from that simple test.
The life of the law has not been logic, it has been experience. -Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Dave Karoly, post: 367349, member: 94 wrote: The life of the law has not been logic, it has been experience. -Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Precisely. One knows from experience that the point was there before the ESL fence builders arrived and somehow left it with a fence post sitting on it after having been knocked loose. So, the 60d nail must be rejected as a semi-fraudulent fiction as all inquiries are made to determine the true location of the original point that the parties first had in view before the malicious mischief of the fence builders.
Kent McMillan, post: 367350, member: 3 wrote: Precisely. One knows from experience that the point was there before the ESL fence builders arrived and somehow left it with a fence post sitting on it after having been knocked loose. So, the 60d nail must be rejected as a semi-fraudulent fiction as all inquiries are made to determine the true location of the original point that the parties first had in view before the malicious mischief of the fence builders.
Okay I see what you mean there. Maybe the fence builders found the point lying nearby and brought it and dropped it into the hole.
Dave Karoly, post: 367351, member: 94 wrote: Okay I see what you mean there. Maybe the fence builders found the point lying nearby and brought it and dropped it into the hole.
More likely, they dug the hole beside the point and the point just fell in. Now everybody thinks that just because they can't find the point, the post must be on top of it, but then someone drives a 60d nail in the other end of the post and claims that IT is on the point.
Kent McMillan, post: 367336, member: 3 wrote: Well, it wasn't:
"BEGINNING at a 60d Nail found on a point in the TOP OF A FENCE POST", but
"BEGINNING at a 60d Nail found in the TOP OF A FENCE POST on a point ...".
So, the fence post was clearly on top of the point and I'm thinking the hole may have been dug BESIDE THE POINT and the point just fell into it at some time before the post was placed on top of it and backfilled. I keep checking the Schonstedt Company's product line, but the Point Detector is apparently still in development.
You don't say whether this point found was of the geodetic type, but if it were, and they published a new geoid, is it possible it could be raised back up to the top of the post?
It's best to keep a few old points in the truck. An older surveyor ( now gone ) told me to "keep a old iron pin in the truck, you may need to find one ."
Of course, it's always useful to carry one of these in the truck, in case you want to drive the "pointe" home.:plumbbob:
What is the diameter of a point? Seriously, some Title Attorneys believe that their liability is reduced by the corner being described as a point and not a specific/recoverable point monument. My response upon hearing this was "then what's the point of the survey?"
! ! !
lmbrls, post: 367362, member: 6823 wrote: What is the diameter of a point? Seriously, some Title Attorneys believe that their liability is reduced by the corner being described as a point and not a specific/recoverable point monument. My response upon hearing this was "then what's the point of the survey?"
I have been trying to figure out what in hell a "point" is related to surveying applications for 45 years.
Still don't know.:-( (or care)
Kent McMillan, post: 367154, member: 3 wrote: Today delivered a possible explanation for why those "points" that at one time were popular for land boundary corners, particularly among civil engineers, can be so hard to find. The descriptions of record gave the game away, starting at the Points of Beginning:
"BEGINNING at a 3/4-inch diameter iron rod found ON A POINT in the northerly right-of-way line"
In other words, some dastardly individual had found the point and had driven a rebar right on top of it, thereby leaving the point under the rebar and out of sight.
"At a point on the ... line" or "on a point along the ...line", I see this all the time. Doesn't mean he found something there and pounded something new over it. A point, a corner, just theoretical locations. I'd be happy to have a monument call at all. 🙂