Nate The Surveyor, post: 385594, member: 291 wrote: It's possible that Greg Rodger above could benefit from a serious lesson in the use of a compass. I don't mean any rudeness at all by that statement, but I know another surveyor, who also does NOT trust his compass....ie, he is not confident in it.
I have retraced NS section lines, for MILES that did not vary by more than 3 feet. A properly run compass, can perform some serious work. BUT you must index it. You must understand it. Used properly, a compass is a serious surveying tool.
And, there are places where a compass can make you run curved lines.
I want to promote understanding.
Nate
PS. I just noticed your profile pic, is that a JAVAD?
This thread has been a great read. In my short 14 year career I've heard the importance of compass bearings and local attraction but this thread seems like it pulled it all together for me. It seems to me that it would be a good idea take simple handheld compass readings of my traverse lines as I go. Although the readings might not be exactly on the lines that the prior surveyor ran, at least I might pick up some anomalies in the magnetic attraction of the area. We have alot of iron in the hills around here so local attraction is very relavent to me (it's also fun using a metal detector in areas where they maintain the roads with mine tailings).
Gregg
I can't speak for Arkansas, but the Code of Maryland Regulations states:
A registrant may undertake or perform land-surveying assignments only when qualified to do so by education or experience, or both, in the specific field of land surveying involved.
A registrant with no understanding how original colonial era surveys were performed, or how to professionally retrace them, already has no business performing boundary retracements on these types of properties and it can be argued that the quoted language already legally enjoins them from doing so. If the years of education and experience required to currently become licensed didn't' teach someone that, then three days with a compass sure isn't
Likewise a wiz with a compass, who can retrace a colonial patent in their sleep, might have no business stacking building control of performing deformation monitoring, and three days with a half second gun isn't going to help him either.
Greg Rodger, post: 385599, member: 11989 wrote: PS. I just noticed your profile pic, is that a JAVAD?
I absolutely am a sold customer, on the JAVAD gear. I think they have the BEST GPS in the industry. On a "normal" GPS, there is FIXED, FLOAT, and AUTO.
On this thing, that portion of the software is greatly expanded.
Fixed.. yes, how many engines?
How many times did we reset?
How many seconds did we observe?
It's like Michael J Fox, and his guitar, in "Back to the future". When you see what it does, your jaw drops. His audience was not prepared for his guitar solo. It takes a bit to get up to speed, but those who do, never go back.
Nate
James Fleming, post: 385601, member: 136 wrote: I can't speak for Arkansas, but the Code of Maryland Regulations states:
A registrant may undertake or perform land-surveying assignments only when qualified to do so by education or experience, or both, in the specific field of land surveying involved.
A registrant with no understanding how original colonial era surveys were performed, or how to professionally retrace them, already has no business performing boundary retracements on these types of properties and it can be argued that the quoted language already legally enjoins them from doing so. If the years of education and experience required to currently become licensed didn't' teach someone that, then three days with a compass sure isn't
Likewise a wiz with a compass, who can retrace a colonial patent in their sleep, might have no business stacking building control of performing deformation monitoring, and three days with a half second gun isn't going to help him either.
I agree with this. Its more important to know the how and why and the right tools for the job- I have never done mine layout but when we had a job that required aligning a shaft I knew before we started that a 5" total station would not work. I had literally 1 week experience but had already learned about precision and mining requirements in school. We passed on the job after we learned their precision requirements were several degrees of magnitude smaller than what we could ever hope with a total station. You can practice all you want with a 5" gun but you will never get anywhere near what optical tooling can achieve.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 385603, member: 291 wrote: I absolutely am a sold customer, on the JAVAD gear. I think they have the BEST GPS in the industry. On a "normal" GPS, there is FIXED, FLOAT, and AUTO.
On this thing, that portion of the software is greatly expanded.
Fixed.. yes, how many engines?
How many times did we reset?
How many seconds did we observe?
It's like Michael J Fox, and his guitar, in "Back to the future". When you see what it does, your jaw drops. His audience was not prepared for his guitar solo. It takes a bit to get up to speed, but those who do, never go back.
Nate
I am extremely keen to get my hands on a Javad unit. Our school bought one the year I graduated and I didn't get a chance to play with it. My only concern was that with the built in data collector it didn't seem as rugged as a leica or trimble unit - How does it fair in heavy rain/snow/extreme cold? I don't know if you've ever been to Canada but we can get weeks in Jan/Feb of -30 Celcius 🙁 which plays havoc on touch screens. Do you find it stacks up with other rugged field kit? If so I am sold and may just buy myself one (even though we are a leica crew).
Well, it appears you are 23 hrs and 28 minutes north of me. 1459 miles.
One of my complaints about our industry is that keeping current with technology is not real easy. You have to find somebody that knows, what you don't know, and then learn from them, and then the technology changes..... So, now keeping up with just one brand can keep one busy, let alone an objective view of the industry as a whole. Do you ever get down this way?
Well, Greg, shoot me an email.
[email protected]
Technology is not static.
Nate
I am traversing a ridge with a staff compass and a Leica Disto for distance. We have traverse control along the road set with an S6 and GNSS where possible but the ridge that more or less parallels the road is called for in the Deeds as the boundary, no meanders, just the ridge. I check into the control as we go where we come out on the road. It is easy to calc at lunch and after dinner. So far my checks are sufficiently accurate (largest misclosure was 6') for the purpose which is to be able to compute areas between the road and the ridge. The ridge is 10 to 20' wide. It's very thick, can't see the road fifty feet away in places. I had an inmate crew clear a path along the ridge which that saved me two weeks, they did it in two days. I met the Fire Captain up there and said just follow the ridge.
The interesting thing is my directions are within a foot, the distances is where the error is therefore my inversed distances to the road are very close.
RTK? Good luck with that.
Getting back on topic, I still want to buy a Wild T-0. However, If I don't succeed, Does anybody have one of these laying around?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warren-Knight-Forester-s-Staff-Compass-with-Jacobs-Staff-/232035550194?hash=item36066583f2:g:tDAAAOSwPc9Ww2er
I have used the suunto I carry, for indexing things. I often set 2 points in the clear, and record the compass between them, so I have an index on the declination, on that job. I don't want to have to carry a full transit, with compass in it.
Any opinions on this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-K-E-4-3-4-PRECISION-SURVEY-COMPASS-w-Declination-Case-Ball-Head-/191940089073?hash=item2cb08554f1:g:3XMAAOSwIgNXjmS3
I have used the Suunto for years. But, it would be nice to get a larger one, or more accurate one. (Not necessarily the same)
Nate
Nate The Surveyor, post: 385619, member: 291 wrote: Getting back on topic, I still want to buy a Wild T-0. However, If I don't succeed, Does anybody have one of these laying around?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warren-Knight-Forester-s-Staff-Compass-with-Jacobs-Staff-/232035550194?hash=item36066583f2:g:tDAAAOSwPc9Ww2er
I have used the suunto I carry, for indexing things. I often set 2 points in the clear, and record the compass between them, so I have an index on the declination, on that job. I don't want to have to carry a full transit, with compass in it.
Any opinions on this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-K-E-4-3-4-PRECISION-SURVEY-COMPASS-w-Declination-Case-Ball-Head-/191940089073?hash=item2cb08554f1:g:3XMAAOSwIgNXjmS3
I have used the Suunto for years. But, it would be nice to get a larger one, or more accurate one. (Not necessarily the same)
Nate
I have a K+E Forester Compass...very useful.
Dave, does it adjust the declination? How does it mount to the ball joint? I'm tempted to buy that one, I listed above.
Nate
What do you think of this compass? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ushikata-Forest-Surveying-Compass-w-Transiting-Telescope-w-Tripod-Acc-/232036257956?hash=item36067050a4:g:1TkAAOSwRgJXiSlq&autorefresh=true
I know, the auction has ended. But, I was looking at it.
Here's a Berger. I don't know anything about the berger brand, though.
Greg Rodger, post: 385555, member: 11989 wrote: Facepalm the only case I can quote verbatum,. Justice Cooley's - hierarchy of evidence. Surveyor 1 should have paid attention to the evidence on the ground instead of trusting any measurement.
I have trouble believing that is a quote verbatim, and I don't think it's a case at all, but having to do with Justice Cooley's Doctrine. Although there is a "heirarchy of evidence" and "priority of calls" often quoted (I don't recall seeing that list in Cooley's Doctrine), It does not in any way say not to trust any measurement. In my opinion all the elements of a deed are important. a called-for monument would be more "trustworthy" than a replacement (second-generation) monument. Also you need to review the evidence on the ground and have confidence that it's in its original position. The measurement to the monument might help you in making that determination.
I think too many people over use this hierarchy of calls philosophy to make quick decisions. Applying that "list" is only a last resort when all else is exhausted,in my humble opinion). I could give you examples of where you might take other calls over original monuments.
Nate The Surveyor, post: 385632, member: 291 wrote: What do you think of this compass? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ushikata-Forest-Surveying-Compass-w-Transiting-Telescope-w-Tripod-Acc-/232036257956?hash=item36067050a4:g:1TkAAOSwRgJXiSlq&autorefresh=true
I know, the auction has ended. But, I was looking at it.
It appears to be relisted for $50 cheaper starting bid:
Licensed Land Surveyor
Finger Lakes Region, Upstate New York
Tom Adams, post: 385657, member: 7285 wrote: Here's a Berger. I don't know anything about the berger brand, though.
I have trouble believing that is a quote verbatim, and I don't think it's a case at all, but having to do with Justice Cooley's Doctrine. Although there is a "heirarchy of evidence" and "priority of calls" often quoted (I don't recall seeing that list in Cooley's Doctrine), It does not in any way say not to trust any measurement. In my opinion all the elements of a deed are important. a called-for monument would be more "trustworthy" than a replacement (second-generation) monument. Also you need to review the evidence on the ground and have confidence that it's in its original position. The measurement to the monument might help you in making that determination.
I think too many people over use this hierarchy of calls philosophy to make quick decisions. Applying that "list" is only a last resort when all else is exhausted,in my humble opinion). I could give you examples of where you might take other calls over original monuments.
this is a fascinating case, though, in many ways. clearly the original intent, and probably most subsequent interpretations of the line are that it is to be straight. the technology used at the time of the establishment of the line didn't allow for such- i seriously doubt the guy holding the compass halfway down a section line understood that he had, in fact, deflected 30-some odd feet. and, obviously, the line has been occupied on the ground and understood, for a very long time, to be in place as established- albeit in an entirely different configuration than what is likely called in deeds, on tax maps, etc.
really a great case to hold up to any prospective licensee insofar as the "art" of surveying vs. the "science" of surveying.
flyin solo, post: 385663, member: 8089 wrote: this is a fascinating case, though, in many ways. clearly the original intent, and probably most subsequent interpretations of the line are that it is to be straight. the technology used at the time of the establishment of the line didn't allow for such- i seriously doubt the guy holding the compass halfway down a section line understood that he had, in fact, deflected 30-some odd feet. and, obviously, the line has been occupied on the ground and understood, for a very long time, to be in place as established- albeit in an entirely different configuration than what is likely called in deeds, on tax maps, etc.
really a great case to hold up to any prospective licensee insofar as the "art" of surveying vs. the "science" of surveying.
Are you talking about Nate-the-Surveyor's example? Or one involving Cooley? Maybe I was mis-speaking above.
I dunno, should one be required to drive a team and wagon over the Oregon Trail before they get a drivers license?
LRDay, post: 385689, member: 571 wrote: I dunno, should one be required to drive a team and wagon over the Oregon Trail before they get a drivers license?
Hmmm I think that would be a good idea in some cases!!!