Adam, That is definitely "Fence Jumper". He is so full of energy. He already said "Dad, when you go to pay me for today's work, I want a fishin pole".
He is 5 yrs old. He RUNS up and down hills, all day long. He has high potential as a surveyor. He pays attention, hunts for monuments, and points them out. I think he really is deep inside happy in the woods, at full tilt. He has more energy than anybody in the family.
Thanks for the compliment. Now, if I can keep up with him...
There is something wrong with someone that runs up hills! Even at that age! Too bad school will cage him soon, kids need to be outdoors!
RSAsurv, post: 385931, member: 10950 wrote: The issue is that even now, having been a registered survey tech, worked alongside other surveyors with between 8 - 30 years experience, and after 18 months of that still needs to be baby handled is just not acceptable to me.
One of two things are happening. I am not trying to call you out, just sounds like you are ranting, maybe a pay rate complaint? And I dislike it when college degrees are blamed for employee problems.
1) You have an employee who can not learn like you say. Why not blame the management for hiring such an incompetent person? At the interview they saw a degree and assumed they were a competent person? It sounds to me like the interview process needs some work?
2) The employee is not being trained properly? I like to think that I could train ANYONE to set up a tripod properly given some time to do it. It seems that most companies do not provide time for training and prefer the "drop them in the frying pan" or yell at them louder approach.
"The degree did/didn't do it" is a great excuse. :unamused:
Beau_Immel, post: 388166, member: 8320 wrote: One of two things are happening. I am not trying to call you out, just sounds like you are ranting, maybe a pay rate complaint? And I dislike it when college degrees are blamed for employee problems.
1) You have an employee who can not learn like you say. Why not blame the management for hiring such an incompetent person? At the interview they saw a degree and assumed they were a competent person? It sounds to me like the interview process needs some work?
2) The employee is not being trained properly? I like to think that I could train ANYONE to set up a tripod properly given some time to do it. It seems that most companies do not provide time for training and prefer the "drop them in the frying pan" or yell at them louder approach.
"The degree did/didn't do it" is a great excuse. :unamused:
Hi no I did rant a bit and I apologize. It's mostly from frustration of having to fix someone else work or the person who is intended to save time doesn't, they actually make life more difficult.
And yes I agree,a degree doesn't mean all that much and having one doesn't mean a person is well trained. And yes my management does have a tendency to hire questionably skilled people. Thats a major drawback for me.
Yes and we do not have enough time for teaching/learning. Always seems like we're going through some emergency on the clients behalf. They might be better if I could teach them,but then again I've got a guy doing draught work and lunchtimes he goes out driving to catch pokemon, yet another example of bad hiring.
I actually feel like I shouldnt be the one mentoring a new grad as I'm also young (7 years surveying). I would like to see the 10-15 years experience guys mentoring me once in a while and spending alot of time teaching the guys fresh out of college.
Makes more sense to me
Thanks for the response
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If you want people trained on the current technology at colleges it is very expensive. The equipment manufacturer typically has to donate equipment to the program. The program itself can not afford to purchase all the equipment needed. A class of twenty people would need 10 total stations just to run a lab class with hands on training. So in say two to five years the equipment is obsolete and the program needs to buy new equipment? So a program has to choose a manufacturer and stay with them? What happens when they change manufacturers? How safe do you feel with green employees using your equipment? I sometimes cringe at the sight of "experienced" employees using gear. Students are going to trash gear, plain and simple.
The old equipment can give solid fundamentals and understanding of procedures.
The training should come on the job. Ideally a student would work part time during class or at least in the summer.
Beau_Immel, post: 388166, member: 8320 wrote: One of two things are happening. I am not trying to call you out, just sounds like you are ranting, maybe a pay rate complaint? And I dislike it when college degrees are blamed for employee problems.
1) You have an employee who can not learn like you say. Why not blame the management for hiring such an incompetent person? At the interview they saw a degree and assumed they were a competent person? It sounds to me like the interview process needs some work?
2) The employee is not being trained properly? I like to think that I could train ANYONE to set up a tripod properly given some time to do it. It seems that most companies do not provide time for training and prefer the "drop them in the frying pan" or yell at them louder approach.
"The degree did/didn't do it" is a great excuse. :unamused:
The problem I find with the current generation of newcomers is simply their ability to listen, comprehend and execute plain and simple direction. I find my self constantly repeating myself. I have trained many others in the past with success, but they were not the "millenial" crowd. With a college degree or without basic listening to direction and executing is lacking in youth of today. Sorry but that's my experience lately.
Ron Lang, post: 388251, member: 6445 wrote: The problem I find with the current generation of newcomers is simply their ability to listen, comprehend and execute plain and simple direction. I find my self constantly repeating myself. I have trained many others in the past with success, but they were not the "millenial" crowd. With a college degree or without basic listening to direction and executing is lacking in youth of today. Sorry but that's my experience lately.
Maybe you've just been unlucky lately, or lucky earlier. I' ve had that same problem with roughly half of the people I've tried to teach over the past twenty five years. This latest crop doesn't really seem any worse, or better, than any of the others over the years.
Or perhaps you've just lost patience.
bobwesterman, post: 388257, member: 7106 wrote: Maybe you've just been unlucky lately, or lucky earlier. I' ve had that same problem with roughly half of the people I've tried to teach over the past twenty five years. This latest crop doesn't really seem any worse, or better, than any of the others over the years.
Or perhaps you've just lost patience.
I think the later is probably more true. I'm not old, hell only 40, but I started surveying at 16 and took to it like a duck to water. I used to enjoy teaching a young buck surveying. But the last few 21 - 26 year olds just are not retaining the information. And believe me I've trained a few numb skulls that I could ultimately take the ball and roll, but that was 10 years ago. This latest batch just don't get it and I don't know why. Maybe it's me. But just a week or so ago I had a young 21 year old rod man pass out on a job. I provide water, ice and coolers and still passed out. Just staking on a construction project. In my earlier years we would go all day with water and crackers cutting lines in 95+ heat and do just fine. And by the way this youngun supposedly runs 2mi a day and rock climbs. My patience is thin.
I have to admit that there are good ones out there and bad ones out there who are needing a job.
Many of them do not want a job and have to work or be on the street.
A few are already on the street to stay and some of them want something and have no way to look.
Many only want a simple job for more money than anyone will pay them.
Many will work hard and not really get anything done except raise a huge sweat.
Many will work on their own hours, not yours.
It goes on and on about the reasons people will or will not work...............
Not many want a profession, those ones are rare to find.
A Harris, post: 388261, member: 81 wrote: I have to admit that there are good ones out there and bad ones out there who are needing a job.
Many of them do not want a job and have to work or be on the street.
A few are already on the street to stay and some of them want something and have no way to look.
Many only want a simple job for more money than anyone will pay them.
Many will work hard and not really get anything done except raise a huge sweat.
Many will work on their own hours, not yours.
It goes on and on about the reasons people will or will not work...............Not many want a profession, those ones are rare to find.
What frustrates me is the two young uns I have now really do have potential, if they would just choose to apply themselves. Believe me I have encouraged but it doesn't take.
I'll admit in my first 6 mos I was just like them...but I was 16 too.. I had a chief pull me aside and give me a talking too which ultimately lead me to where I am today.
I have tried the same with no results as of yet. But I'm gonna keep pushing, maybe I'll get through.
I believe that many of the younger people entering our profession have a lot to offer, particularly with their capabilities using new technology. However, I do find that they have a tendency to be unable to put down their phone during the work day (though that can be said of some older personnel as well, though generally less). As to requiring working knowledge of antiquated equipment - I do not believe this is a practical expectaion. As a mentor, I am capable of explaining the capabilities and expected accuracies attainable from those methods. Frankly, it is far more important to my retracement to know who performed the survey - I have worked in this area for over 35 years, so I have a good idea of which surveyors were careful and thorough and those who were less so... regardless of equipment used.
P.S. - Compass surveys are not part of the survey history in this area and I can understand the issues and complexities that may cause in certain areas.
I tell them "I can take you where you want to go. But, you have to provide your own impetus. Your own drive. If I am BOTH guidance, and drive, I will make mistakes. Get your own drive. And, I'm a very useful person. If I have to provide the drive, you will shortchange yourself. "