Say I buy an square lot of land and build a fence around it. Being the smart guy that I am I offset the fence line 1' inside my property so that I dont disturb the monuments. Then the neighbors come along and build a fence around their property and tie into my fence. Do I lose the one foot strip?
Not immediately. If you don't do anything about it you "may". My first suggestion (assuming you get along with the neighbor) would be to send them a certified letter (let them know its coming) stating that they have your permission to tie onto your fence. That stops any adverse possession.
Andy
I would think not, especially if you send them (owners of the property, not the people occupying it) a certified registered letter that states the location of your fence in relation to your property boundary, and the purpose of the difference (can we make that leap of faith that it is for maintenance reasons so they have no right to modify/paint, or otherwise molest your fence?) Then, let them know they're trespassing when they attach to your fence. Ask them to remove it politely, again by certified registered letter. See below...
§ 96.060¹
Removal of fence built on anothers land
(1) When any person has built or builds, by mistake and in good faith, a fence on the land of another, such person or the successor in interest of the person may, within one year from the time of discovering the mistake, go upon the land of the other person and remove the fence, doing no unnecessary damage thereby.
(2) The occupant or owner of land whereon a fence has been built by mistake shall not throw down or in any manner disturb such fence during the period which the person who built it is authorized by subsection (1) of this section to remove it.
Second thought, and I've heard this alot, "Why did you let them attach anything to YOUR fence in the first place so that they now think they have some kind of claim to it, and your property?"
Hypothetically... of course...
Question of Adverse Possesion and whether it's open and notorious. If you put them on notice with a letter stating that their fence is in trespass the 1' onto your property, you could grant them a license to have their fence there which can be revoked at any time. You might caution them however that were they to sell, the lending company might frown on having an asbuilt showing their fence in trespass and decline to lend until the situation was remedied. Hypothetically of course.
Lease the land to them for $1 per year payable on January 1st of each year.
James
It depends, you have the obligation to defend and manage your rights of ownership. Your choice to do so or not as is how you choose to do it.
jud
No.
The fence was not built on the boundary. You know where the boundary is so you can't agree to a different location without a written conveyance and you don't have an agreement with the neighbor. Boundary agreements have to be mutual, not unilateral.
If you build the fence right
you will still have a square lot.
If it was in PA they'd make you tear it down and kick it in another foot.
No improvements built within 2 feet of your property line.
Now we kick in new owners, twice removed from those occupying the lands of interest who have looked upon the fence as the common ownership line. Ownership changes and time can sure disrupt a simple property line location because of assumptions and ignorance of intent when dealing with fences. Looks like platted lines are becoming harder to be changed by the acts of owners in some states, platted lines not moving is fine with me, ownership claims should automatically be included with that trend but sometimes objections follow revelation. I try to hold the platted lines with the owners in full knowledge and agreement, occasionally a document proving for the continued occupation of improvements across a line until some future condition voids that right of the occupation of that improvement.
jud
I speak from a California perspective.
Our Courts have become increasingly reluctant to deviate from the record boundaries in recent years without evidence of why the fence was built, uncertainty on the part of the builders and evidence of an agreement by both property owners. You would think the passage of time would favor the fence but actually the opposite is true because the required evidence becomes more difficult to obtain.
> No improvements built within 2 feet of your property line.
Are you suggesting that throughout PA there are 4' wide fenced strips centered on parcel lines?
You should object when they tie into your fence and remind them where their land ends.
0.02
> Say I buy an square lot of land and build a fence around it. Being the smart guy that I am I offset the fence line 1' inside my property so that I dont disturb the monuments. Then the neighbors come along and build a fence around their property and tie into my fence. Do I lose the one foot strip?
This perfectly illustrates the wisdom of judges who refuse to consider this situation one in which the statutes of limitation on adverse possession should be applied. At best there may be a boundary dispute, but if the boundaries are well defined and known, that shouldn't even apply.
In southwest PA you can construct a fence on your property line. At one time some municipalities tried to pass a regulation to have a "buffer area" for fences but it did not pass.
Terry
Many years later, your grandson hires a surveyor. He doesn't look very hard and doesn't find any original monuments, only replacements that don't check with each other better than a few feet. The original survey doesn't close by almost a foot anyway. The best evidence of the line is the fence. Now you have lost your foot but no one knows it.
Do I lose the one foot strip?
Not as long as the monuments exist and/or the testimony of why the fence was constructed 1 foot away is available.
When that evidence disappears the fence may be the best evidence but you won't lose the foot because you won't be around.
Your successor in title may suffer the consequences of your smart decision not to construct on the line once the evidence is no longer available.
Maybe the time to get an agreement between owners in writing would have been when the neighbor tied into the off the line fence.
Maybe the best practice is to build on the line.
> Say I buy an square lot of land and build a fence around it. Being the smart guy that I am I offset the fence line 1' inside my property so that I dont disturb the monuments. Then the neighbors come along and build a fence around their property and tie into my fence. Do I lose the one foot strip?
No, you don't "lose" any land as long as YOU as a landowner, and your neighboring landowners fulfill YOUR mutual responsibilities as landowners to maintain YOUR boundaries and monuments. Once you fail to do so, then the boundaries will be located where the evidence and the law says they are located.
I would advise my client as I always do. You never can tell what a judge is going to rule and if he doesn't have an error in his reasoning it won't give the next court something to over rule him on. I wish I had the link handy but a case in Mich. was in the paper not long ago where a lady set her fence a few inches inside her property. Was taken or took her neighbor to court over their use of the few inches and she lost her land to adverse possession even though the boundary corners were easily recoverable or could be re-established with ease. All the neighbor did was mow which I was under the impression wouldn't suffice for an adverse claim. I do not believe the judge was over turned on appeal. If you are not going to put your fence on the boundary, mark the corners and maintain them, let everyone now that the fence is not on the line. When you're neighbor starts to tie into the corners let them know their encroaching.
My brother had the same issue with a neighbor and cut the wire down. He was charged with destruction of property. That's when he brought me in. I had to show the corners to the police. They dropped one charge (I forget what) but he still had to pay a fine for destroying her property. He didn't have to pay her because she agreed to drop the issue if he didn't press tresspass charges which the cop told him he could do. I just shook my head. My brother had never showed her the corners, how could she had known she was tresspassing if she thought the fence was the boundary line? She was crazy and mean but I don't think she truly new where the boundary was. I told my brother he started the whole thing by setting his fence in a foot then not telling her where the boundary is.
Hypothetical-More Info
OK- Neighbors side of the story. They too have a survey for their property..but does not know if it was used in the construction of their fence or not...the builder "handled" it. They assume it was done "right" and assumed that the fence was the property line. My hypothetical landowner knows that his fence guy came off of the existing survey monuments and came in a foot. side tie to the house backs that up. He did notice that after the neighbors builder was finished that the lath had been moved over to where the fences tie together. Looking at the hypothetical plat, I am sure that his capped iron rod monuments are still there and probably flush with the ground. The entire subdivision is less than 2 yrs old and the ties to the adjoiners call for the same companies capped iron rods that I am sure are there as well if they would just go look.
I do not think that hypothetical really cares that they tied to the fence for any other reason than it may be assumed to be the property line , and would have no problem paying to have it moved to the correct location if need be. It sounds to me like a certified letter or a lease agreement would be the neighborly thing to do if both parties agree that the neighbor is over the line?
Next question, would I be out of line if I go out there and give hypothetical and neighbor a lesson on how to read their surveys?
