Much like the thread below about realizing we DIDN'T know as much as we thought, the question here is when did you realize you were using your own knowledge and experience to educate co-workers?
We all were newbies once upon a time. Somewhere along the way we became the one that co-workers learned to listen to.
Did that occur while you were in your 20's, 30's, 40's....or never? How long did it take for you to realize that you were mentoring them?
My experience happened shortly after moving to a new employer to work in their engineering division while in my late 20's. There were about 80 people who had the word "engineer" as part of their job title. I was looking forward to learning from their vast experiences to boost my own potential. The company had a very active Value Engineering Department that would reward employees financially for suggestions that, if implemented, would produce significant savings. I was assigned to be one of about five reviewers to determine the merits of whatever was proposed. One suggestion came from a Senior Mechanical Engineer who recommended a rather simple way to save a tremendous amount of money. The problem was that it would save almost no money and probably cost more to implement than it would return in twenty years. I was shocked. A first year engineering student would know better than this Senior Mechanical Engineer. Other such foolish suggestions rolled in from other "engineers" somewhat routinely. Upon investigation, I discovered I was one of only five who had ever attended college and graduated with an engineering degree. The other 75 had work experience in many practical matters but no training in engineering. The company structure had many job titles and many different pay ranges. To give someone a raise above the top of their true skill area they had to be given a promotion to an engineering position and removed from their true job function. One "engineer" in my department had experience driving trains. No joke. Another had started out as the department clerk doing nothing but typing letters. Two actually had degrees in biology and another a degree in chemistry, so they at least understood math and science but little about the practical usage of such. One had barely graduated high school but could have made it as a politician because he kept getting job promotions because he was popular with the top management. He had no technical skills whatsoever. The challenge for me was to help this collection of misfits in turning out the overall product demanded from our department. Because I succeeded at doing so, I was promoted to Senior Project Engineer and moved to a different department of misfits. They were even tougher to educate. Most actually believed they could do what their job title inferred. One of them was the Senior Mechanical Engineer mentioned above who told many wonderful stories from his days flying planes over Europe during World War II.
I was a reluctant mentor...
By the time I was in my thirties I had a decent job at a civil firm ran by a retired Lt. Col., U.S. Army. We were steeped in the civil standards of early twentieth century engineering principals (both good and bad). I had earned my way to the lofty position of "Chief of Parties".
One morning I was introduced to a young man that "would be on my crew" but had no experience in surveying, other than a few classes in college.
For a few weeks I tried to divulge all the discipline a newbie would need to know. I also apparently confidentially related what I felt could help improve the company's processes. I had actually unknowingly been training the new engineer that was secretly hired and sent up through the ranks as a mole to get a good taste of the company. I felt a little uneasy when I found out what was going on. I had probably been brutally honest in my assessment of the firm, including the "Old Man".
The new engineer became a breath of fresh air and we remained with a solid friendship and good working relationship. I believe the firm survived because of a lot of the changes he implemented...some of them were my ideas.
The winds have blown us all to the four corners of the globe, but I still get calls from him every now again asking survey questions.
That was a long time ago.
probably when I was about 25 or 26 I had the pleasure of mentoring a batch of newbies, it was fun at first... and it continued to be fun thru most of my working days. it is a necessary part of the profession.
only once did I actually carry the job title "Survey Mentor", I was about 57 when I took that job. apparently I was too good at it, the position was eliminated a bit more than a year later 😉
Mid 20's, I was chiefing by 21/22 chief parties by 25/26.
Some of my mentor's have scared me:
One of my first mentor's said; if you take something good, from every party chief you ever work with. Eventually, you will be the best party chief ever! I took it one step further; I watched my party chiefs, and when they f'd up; I figured out how not to do that.
This is not what scared me. What scared me was:
- "there are properties that are unsurveyable"
- "you can't get there from here"
- "You can not define state boundaries on the ground"
- give me a minute, I'll think of some more...
My old man once told me:
> never believe anything anyone ever tells you; and only half of what they show you....
I'm speculating here; but I think he was talking about salesmen. Anyway, ever since, I've always taken, most everything I've seen, with a grain of salt; I tell the students I know to do the same.
The important thing here is to verify: do you have evidence to stand behind your decision.
Remember to establish provisions for any extra work, prior to commencing....:-D
co-workers
I don't have any co-workers, not for a long time.
I sought out some mentors in land surveying but didn't work for them. I don't think I'll ever be a mentor for another surveyor, at least as far as licensing goes. In Utah a surveyor can only get qualifying experience if they are employed for a company where their supervisor is a LS. I don't have any employees and don't think I ever will have, at least in the survey business.
So my response is never.
Most of the surveyors that I know that I consider mentor material are solo, self employed. I disagree with Utah law that takes these folks off the table as mentors for young surveyors. Just because you are not employed by them and supervised by them doesn't mean what they can teach is not good and valuable experience. I think experience is required for licensing. I don't think that the Utah way of getting it really mentors a young surveyor. So what if you worked for a survey/engineering firm for 4 years. The young surveyor may or may not have been mentored. Do the time and get your ticket.
I got my license at 25. By 27, I had two prospective license holders under my wing.
I'm 37 now and still listen to those who taught me and still proof one of those who I mentored who got his license.
Sounds like you were the engineer that was a pretty smart feller in that company..
Anyway, the older people get the more didactic they become in heir ways. You see it here by posters such as your self and Paul in Pa and . I think it is a Buddhist or something tenet concerning votives, the first third of your life you learn, second third one does and the last third one teaches.
Never had a mentor per se and never thought of myself as a mentor but have worked, studied and have known smart surveyors
Etc.
I started mentoring when I became a crew chief in the 90's, so I'd say age 36, by age 46 I'd mentored two crew members to the point of becoming PLS's and one as an LSI.
My current employer had me working as a solo survey department. I't really frustrating to not have anyone to pass my knowledge to and dealing with a bunch of "engineers" that have neither licenseure nor any clue what surveying entails.
Mid 20's - I discovered an unused Curta in the glove box and became the calc man for the crew. Taught the crew chief how to calculate deflection angles so we could stake curves...
Not yet, officially and I started in 1967. Worked part-time for my dad and a few others until I was 21.
I started Teaching in 1969 while still quite green, but I knew more than anyone I was then working with. I have been teaching where ever I have worked since then
Like Greg Shoults, I made PC at 21, working for Brown & Root on construction and on my own hook. I never made Chief of parties. A couple years after making PC I was Field Engineer in charge of the whole job. At the ripe old age of 25, I was Field Engineer and Asst. Superintendent on a Road Construction job.
I went back to land surveying for a while in 76 and back for good in 80. Always seemed to get all the green hands to train.
Apparently, even with my so-so patience quotient, I have enough to be a decent teacher.B-)
