It seems to me that having title in fee is a thing of the past. At least in the locale I live (Portlandia). The zoning and planning rules have people so bound up now that you cannot do anything to your property without calling them first (and usually paying a fee).
I got a call the other day from a landowner saying that the city sent him a letter and is fining him for having an RV parked on his property.
A separate client wants to do a Property Line Adjustment, which the city will allow but they want him to dedicate 2 feet of street frontage for future sidewalk widening. Oh, now that you dedicated 2 feet you cannot meet your minimum lot size. Sorry, no PLA for you.
This just drives me Crazy, that you can't do your own thing on your own property. How did it ever get like this?
amen.
it's incredibly frustrating. the sense of private property rights, which is at the heart of why we are surveyors, is in direct contradiction to this sort of thing.
obviously there are narrow exceptions that require some restriction on the enjoyment of your property at the sake of my enjoyment of my property (loud noises, noxious odor, sanitary sewer disposal). it's not a clearly defined line, but the sort of things you mention, along with the color of paint you put on your house, the growing of vegetable gardens, the presentation of flags, the display of political signs, etc., are all, in my opinion are way over on the other side of that invisible line.
I suppose this goes into politics, but curiously it is not a distinguished by party politics in my opinion. it's more an issue of authoritarianism vs. liberalism (as classically defined).
I like zoning laws, as long as they are kept reasonable. I think some cities take it too far and you have wonder if taking people's right to use their property for certain things isn't an unlawful taking that should be compensated under the constitution. I've heard of people having their undeveloped property's zoning switched from commercial to residential, and with the stroke of a pen, reduced their property value by 50-75%.
"How did it ever get like this?" ANSWER - because we allowed it to.
As a whole, everyone is fed up. However the squeaky wheel gets the attention, everyone else is too busy being a tax worker robot to spend the time to protect their rights.
This is one of the largest reasons, I will never live in a city.
The only people that have the passion to work to protect private property rights are labeled extreme radicals and are probably on a watch list.
> A separate client wants to do a Property Line Adjustment, which the city will allow but they want him to dedicate 2 feet of street frontage for future sidewalk widening.
>
This is the worst. It used to be called extortion. If you want "permission" to do something that you should already have the right to do, you first have to "give" us what we would normally have to pay for. I have seen quite a few examples of this kind of abuse.
This is why I despise zoning and will fight that scourge on mankind from spreading as much as I can. Houston, Texas does not have zoning. I think the rest of us can manage.
> It seems to me that having title in fee is a thing of the past. At least in the locale I live (Portlandia). The zoning and planning rules have people so bound up now that you cannot do anything to your property without calling them first (and usually paying a fee).
>
> I got a call the other day from a landowner saying that the city sent him a letter and is fining him for having an RV parked on his property.
>
> A separate client wants to do a Property Line Adjustment, which the city will allow but they want him to dedicate 2 feet of street frontage for future sidewalk widening. Oh, now that you dedicated 2 feet you cannot meet your minimum lot size. Sorry, no PLA for you.
>
> This just drives me Crazy, that you can't do your own thing on your own property. How did it ever get like this?
If the City wants 2' dedicated and then says that he would then not meet minimum lot size, there are a couple of solutions to that. One is to give the City a pedestrian easement instead of dedicating in fee simple, then the lot size doesn't change. The other tact is to speak with the City Attorney's office and let them know that as a result of this dedication requirement, and the subsequent inability to build, the City has essentially made a "taking" or condemnation of your client's property, which is against the law.
They should just do a "property line agreement" and make the line between the lots where they want it to be. Don't even tell the City.
> "How did it ever get like this?" ANSWER - because we allowed it to.
I absolutely agree. I used to do some work in a neighboring county on rare occasions. When 'extra' regulations were 'required', I would ask "Where in the guidelines is it required that ..." I actually was told once "We don't have this much trouble out of the other surveyors."
Frankly it is my opinion that if the surveyors would question these very questionable tactics more often, they might be curtailed a little. I do not see that happening.
That is why I will be moving to the country next year.
The city here (pop. 16,000) is getting ready to install 200 cameras all over town.
BIG BROTHER gone amuck. No privacy except the rural areas.
> They should just do a "property line agreement" and make the line between the lots where they want it to be. Don't even tell the City.
Unless they happen to want a building permit, which no doubt is the purpose of the PLA.
> It seems to me that having title in fee is a thing of the past. At least in the locale I live (Portlandia).....
The thing is, a majority of voters in Portland like it that way.
The Portland area has an "urban growth boundary" which keeps the outlying rural areas from being developed. That forces at least some re-development into the older inner city neighborhoods - instead of leaving them to rot. A lot of these Property Line Adjustments are done to facilitate this redevelopment.
Property values are really high in Portland, and so the densities are pretty high in many neighborhoods. I don't particularly want my neighbor parking his eyesore of an RV where it will cast a shadow on my property. There are zoning rules about these things. If the zoning allowed for parking RV's on the property, the city wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
I too have been frustrated by City of Portland and other area city and county agencies, but Portland is a very liveable city that has mostly escaped, or at least curtailed, a lot of big city blight problems. There is a reason why people are willing to pay twice or three times as much for a house in Portland than they are in Tulsa.
Of course there is also a reason why I'm writing from Tulsa and not from Portland.
As far as the 2 feet goes, get a professional planner involved who can invoke a little Measure 37 pressure, maybe you can get a variance under the circumstances.
The city is being nasty, and you won't accomplish much of anything without doing what they ask. It's irritationg as can be, and I was making light of it (which may not have been appropriate). I'm sure you're right that there is something going on that makes them get the city's blessing and they are extorting what they want irrespective of their citizen's needs.
In my opinion any government agency should be working for the good of their residents, and if they need extra right-of-way they should be paying the fair-market value for the property. If it's truely needed for the good of the community, the community should be paying for it; not the individual land owner.
In my opinion (or experience) City governments are the worst at this.
> There is a reason why people are willing to pay twice or three times as much for a house in Portland than they are in Tulsa.
> Of course there is also a reason why I'm writing from Tulsa and not from Portland.
lol.
Personally, I like living in my county and out of the city limits. My city isn't as bad as many I have seen, but according to my subdivision covenants, I am simply limited to how many goats and chickens I can raise on my property. I am not offended in the least if my neighbor wants to park his RV in his driveway, and I'll help him park it if he needs help.
That is "not allowed" in our local Home Rule Municipality. Any adjustment of property lines has to be accomplished through the subdivision process or perhaps the court. I also discovered a few years ago that even the court may not be able to create non-conforming parcels, such as through probate, without County approval. It could have been, but was not, a painful learning experience.
> ...I am simply limited to how many goats and chickens I can raise on my property. I am not offended in the least if my neighbor wants to park his RV in his driveway....
If you lived in a neighborhood of Portland where goats and chickens were allowed under the zoning - and there are such neighborhoods - there would likely be no problem with RV parking either.
> ... I am not offended in the least if my neighbor wants to park his RV in his driveway, and I'll help him park it if he needs help.
You say that; because your neighbor drives a brand new "Surveyor" and keeps it protected with a costom cover.
I'd think you'd be whistling a different tune, if you opened the door and saw your neighbor's cousin dumping his blackwater into the stormdrain out front.....
[flash width=420 height=315]//www.youtube.com/v/BeskbiJjCXI?version=3&hl=en_US[/flash]
I agree. "We" the voters allowed it. But now "we" the surveyors get to be the bearer of bad news to our clients or perspective clients, and that is what sucks.
"A" represents John. "B" represents one of the 700,000 people on the terror watch list. Historically it has been statistically proven that you will have a social connection with one of those terrorists through 6 degrees of separation. That number is now as low as 4 degrees of separation due to our increased ability to communicate across large distances.
The NSA uses a super computer to monitor a social network with 4 trillion nodes and 70 trillion edges. They covertly carry out espionage on ALL people within 3 degrees of separation of people on the terror watch list.
I'm not real good at math, but there is probably a pretty good chance you are under intense surveillance 24/365.
Recently it has been verified that this espionage includes;
1.)Interception and permanent storage of all verbal conversations made using your cell phone. With the ability to covertly activate the microphone (even while it is turned off), it could also include most face to face conversations as well.
2.) Interception and permanent storage of all your digital written communications.
3.) Interception and permanent storage of the real time position of your cell phone.
4.) Interception and permanent storage of all your financial data.
As long as you don't have a social connection to a terrorist, you should not fear for your privacy.....What are the chances?
