Hey guys! I just recently found this forum and love it!
I would like to make my first post by venting about my own stupidity!
Sorry for the long post
My next door neighbor approached me about helping her with the seawall she was having installed(lake). At the point she contacted me she had paid a deposit to the builder plus all of the permitting fees six months prior. He notified her that the application was rejected and she needed a survey. I told her I would take care of the survey for $750(big discount b/c she was my neighbor). The city required a full topo of the site (1/2 ft contours) 100x200 plus the physical staking of the 100 year flood contour and showing the mhwl contour on the survey. I completed and delivered the survey a week later and she paid the bill. I'm done or so I think.
She calls me up a few days later because she can't get a hold of the seawall builder and asks if I can try to call him from my number. He was dodging her calls. I get a hold of him and drop off the surveys. I think I'm done again! Well her application gets rejected because of a ton of missing information and also the complete absence of a set of engineering plans.
I review the reasons for her rejection and said I'll help the her get the info he needs. Long story short I coordinated getting all of the required information for the application and got it submitted for her. I think I'm done again!
Application gets rejected because the city engineer wants her to put a drainage swale in the back. She will not do this as it would look awful and I agreed with her. The builder can't refund any of the 3,000 dollars she has already paid. So she thinks she is out 3,000 dollars and isn't getting a seawall. I calmed her down and told her that I would talk to a friend at the city and see if she could help out.
One day later I have the city engineer at her house and I have a two hour meeting with him and my friend and get the approval without the swale! Her seawall gets built and I am done, or so I thought!
She calls me up and asks if I can come over and speak with her about placing pols on her side lot lines. I meet with her and she doesn't like the idea of the plastic caps; so I tell her I can place 3 1/4" aluminum caps but they cost a lot more. I give her an estimate for 800 dollars(discounted again like a idiot) for setting 10 pols in the 10 specific locations she wanted along her wooded boundary line. She gets mad and says I just want what I paid for. I almost fell over and then explained to her that she has a copy of my signed and sealed 24x36 inch drawing and that is what she paid for. She states doesn't a survey tell me where my property is? I said yes and told her that her property is where the four stakes i flagged up are. She say but that only tells me the locations at the corners and I thought you were a honest business man; are you at least going to give me a survey that shows the new seawall? (The city didn't require a final survey) I said no; I was not hired to prepare a final survey!
I AM DONE!!!!!!!!
How stupid was I to do the survey for 750 as a favor!!!!
Sorry for the vent! I'm going to enjoy my beer tonight!
Welcome to the board, great story!!
"No good deed goes unpunished."
(Donald T. Poole 2012)
Here is what I'd do:
ITEMIZE your bill. As though it was not a neighbor.
And, show them the discount.
You see, our dear lady friend is in partners with "Our Lady of Assumption" and she assumes that you did not really cut her a deal... like a used car salesman.
N
That's the problem with doing favors, of any kind. Too many times this just encourages the recipient to ask for even more.
Yep cm, there's a lot of lore which sums up this sort of situation. As one of my old bosses said 'the more they get the more they want'. He also had a piece of advice which I didn't appreciate at the time but I do now, 'don't turn that job around too quick, they'll end up thinking this surveying lark is a piece of p**s' (to use a British turn of phrase). Of course as Jean Paul Sartre said 'hell is other people'.
Nate has it right.
Every time I give a client/neighbor/friend, etc., a discounted invoice I show them what my regular invoice would have been using full rates. It makes an impression.
Welcome to the site. I also do it like Nate, but your case is a bit convoluted.
jud
> Nate has it right.
>
> Every time I give a client/neighbor/friend, etc., a discounted invoice I show them what my regular invoice would have been using full rates. It makes an impression.
Agree. I even have suggested that they call around a little bit to see what it's worth. That may be a tad bit unethical, but business is business and that client (friend) just got educated regarding the value of our services. And we all preach about educating our clients.
The ones that bother me are the "acquaintenances" that all of a sudden think they are your friend. "hey buddy, I need this work done and you may as well make the money". Just gotta sort through all the stuff.
Jobs for neighbors, relatives, and friends that you do for a discount WILL go to hekc in a handbasket. That is an unwritten law.
Welcome to the board. Good luck with that one.
:good: Amen
I do not work for friends , relatives or churches period.
Yep... I have had neighbors come by and ask if I would locate their pins or just one line of their property for a fence. I would give them a quote (reasonable for not cheap) and they always walk away and never come back. Hmmm... I guess I should ask the mechanic just to pull and put in the engine for me. I will do all the other work. RIGHT? Idiots. I hate when neighbors take advantage of each other. Even my friends that help me get nice tokens of appreciation.
Makes you kind of wonder what a "friend" is. Someone that will throw business your way instead of taking their business to a stranger, or someone who will ask you to do work for them for free (or at cost) and act like your cheating them anyway. ?
It doesn't help when realtors or other people are telling them that a survey costs around $100
> "No good deed goes unpunished."
> (Donald T. Poole 2012)
Indeed! I was just going to say quote the exact same.
Welcome aboard.
When I was a neophyte one of my bosses (later a business partner) told me, "NEVER do anyone a favor!!" I thought. "How cold, how heartless..." ±30 years later, after having performed a number of favors, my instructions to my employees is "NEVER do anyone a favor!!" There is no surer way of inviting problems...
> I do not work for friends , relatives or churches period.
Neither do I. I tell them that I wouldn't want to be a misunderstanding and wouldn't want there to be any appearance of impropriety since I am related to them. The light bulb usually goes off in their head and they agree.
Give to a good charity and you will feel better next time. Never discount what you do for a living. Period.
> Here is what I'd do:
>
> ITEMIZE your bill. As though it was not a neighbor.
>
> And, show them the discount.
>
> You see, our dear lady friend is in partners with "Our Lady of Assumption" and she assumes that you did not really cut her a deal... like a used car salesman.
>
> N
:good: always!
Are there any photos of the "Neighbor Lady" ?
For sure. 20 or so years ago I did a survey and small division for my Dad. I told him then, the fee is $$$, same as I would charge anyone else.
He passed a few years ago, and just as I predicted, the value of that land was greatly enhanced because of the work I did. The new owners could be expected to jump all over me if I screwed the pooch with a cut rate survey done as a family favor.
For boundary surveys, I consider the land, the subject parcel and the adjoiners, the client. Owners come and go don't you know?
I did lots of favors for my Dad, but not what I do for a living. In the case of the survey, I did him a big favor helping him understand the nature of zoning and uses and what he could/should do to maximize the value of his lands. He made many times my fee on just the eventual increase in value.
The final disbursement to me from his estate was more than 10 times the fee I charged for the survey, and most of that was due to added value based upon my work.