Ethics question

my gut says 'no'. It just doesn't feel right to me...

No problem with me. Sounds like smart business. You are under no obligation to refund anything to anyone.

There's no reason you shouldn't be able to charge the same fee for the service to a new client.

It's your luck (or business acumen, if you prefer) that the original client paid your fee even though he didn't close, and you now have a product needed by another entity.

Of course, you're gonna go out there again and check it, right?

Your original client hired you to do a survey. You did so and the client pays you for it. Wheather the deal fell through or not, that is HIS survey, bought and paid for. That plat is his and should not just have the name changed to suit a new client.
HOWEVER, if a new client comes up and wants you to do the survey and you return to the field and "re-verify" the data, that is a new survey and you would be in the clear to give the results of THAT survey to the new client.
Ya' just has to larn to think lack a lawyer!! :party:

Sicilian & cptdent nailed it IMO.

It's ALL about the NEXT trip out there to VERIFY that nothing has changed. That DOES make it a “new” survey IMB.

Loyal

I don't have a problem using previous work for a new client. You own the work anyway!

My problem comes with this "Is it ethical for me to contact the listing broker and advise her that I can make this survey available (for a fee)"

I don't believe that the solicitation is appropriate.

I would say something like "I am quite familiar with the property and may be able to provide a survey for a reduced fee."

I don't have any problem with reusing the work. In my case the original client would have signed my contract, part of which states:

All plats, drawings, reports, plans, specifications, field data and notes, and other documents, including all documents on electronic media, prepared by Consultant are instruments of service, and shall remain the property of Consultant and may be used by Consultant without the consent of Client.

As for contacting the broker, to me it's a little unseemly (in an ambulance chasing sort of way) and I probably wouldn't do it, but I'd have no problem with anyone who did.

Sure like the recording requirements of this state, required in 1947 I think, only 5 at the time. This whole thread sounds alien to me with the County Surveyor Records being public record, for all to see and use.
jud

business is business...

I think I like Larry Best's approach. I don't think it to be unethical to try to get work, as long as you don't lie or do anything unethical in the process.

Knowing what I know now as a professional land surveyor, I would think it most efficient to hire someone who has already done the research and resolved property evidence and ambiguities to determine a boundary.

Not knowing anything about the surveyors in an area (say I moved out of state), I think I would probably look for corner monuments in the ground and consider hiring someone who has been there before. I would hope he would consider charging me a little less than if he had to go into an area cold where he has no control and has not every located any controlling corners.

It's a little unfair to a new guy trying to make his way in a new business, but on the other hand, I do want what is best for me and my properties.

What should he do, just sit there, knowing that there may be a market for this survey and let it pass by?

If the deal has truly fallen through, the surveyor is under no obligation to anyone to refrain from performing this survey again for another party.

Anyone who has been on the other end of a cancelled order, as in "Oh forget it, we found someone who has the old survey" can relate to this.

There's nothing wrong with letting a potential client know that you have information they might find useful. Many surveyors around here advertise that they have "Records of H. G Vanderlapp", "Records of Baldwin & Cornielius", etc., etc.

They don't want to re-invent the wheel, they just want to close the deal.

I know a surveyor back in the 80's that when things got slow he would survey houses with forsale signs and then call the real estate agent and give them a cut rate on the survey already finished.

I wouldn't worry about calling the realtor. They will call you when they need a "cheap" survey and then haggle over the price.

> I would say something like "I am quite familiar with the property and may be able to provide a survey for a reduced fee."

I agree with you Larry, except for the reduced fee.

Good and correct post! A surveyors opinion and data are proprietary information, the map produced for a client is the property of the client. You need that clients permission to share it, even if it's filed in the public record. You can send people to the public record for a copy. And you can let the real estate people know you're a good candidate for the next survey of the parcel.

What is generally thought to be the nature of the surveyor/client relationship in your state? That's the key to the answer. In Maine, it's generally treated as ongoing, and involves what's often referred to as "client privilege." Surveyors here routinely get the client's permission before releasing unrecorded survey plans or data, even to another surveyor. Would the earlier client be OK with your getting paid again? If not, s/he should be reimbursed for the survey once the new buyer pays up, and you should get paid whatever the additional time and trouble is worth. The new client then obtains the "client privileges" the previous client had had.

I appreciate that the situation may be very different elsewhere. Though to me, if it's much different, it's more the relationship of vendor to customer rather than professional to client. Nothing wrong with that, if that's the prevailing standard.

As to calling the Realtor: at worst, as someone has already said, it's "ambulance chasing" -- perhaps tacky, at worst mildly unprofessional, but far from unethical, I think.

That's a prevailing thought, to get the same surveyor who is familiar with the area. The problem is the client may get the same wrong answer over and over again.

When you consider that the only thing being sold is a professional opinion, doesn't it make sense to get a second opinion?

I tell people there are two ways to go; retain a surveyor that is familiar with the area and does a bunch of work there and get a cheaper price, or (and the better option I think) retain a different surveyor who will start from scratch and investigate the matter fully. Hopefully you get the same answer, but sometimes you don't. Better to find problems and solve them before too much time goes by. And it emphasizes to the public that the survey is not a commodity. And it gives surveyors an opportunity to work in differing environments and discuss evidence and procedure with each other.

If the original survey was done on a fixed fee basis then there is no ethical problem with reusing the data. The client pays the same no matter how the job went. If you already had the job done from an earlier client, the client pays the same.

If the work was done on an hourly charge basis, than I think it's a little mirkier. There the client has an interest in how the job goes.

One more reason to work fixed fee.