We heard directly from a FEMA official yesterday that the new Elevation Certificate has NOT been officially released nor is it to be used until it is officially released. This is why its not available on the website...
Jim in AZ, post: 355307, member: 249 wrote: We heard directly from a FEMA official yesterday that the new Elevation Certificate has NOT been officially released nor is it to be used until it is officially released. This is why its not available on the website...
If it was in writing, could you post?
My local floodplain administrator didn't accept the "old" form. She sent me a pdf (which couldn't be edited) of the new form. I had to fill it out by hand and copy and paste the photos. I would rather have waited; but, she was pressing me and I didn't know FEMA's stance.
FEMA should end the confusion and update their webpage, one way or the other. They've already extended the last form a couple of times, but those have expired, it still says the last one was good until Nov. 2015. How hard would be to make that say March 2016, or whatever, so that we know what their position is.
David C. Newell RPLS LS CFM, post: 355309, member: 6347 wrote: If it was in writing, could you post?
It was verbal only - in a meeting I am pushing for particulars...
Can't wait for the details. Just gathered data for a Elevation Certificate today.
Wait a minute. That guy was from the Government, right? That clearly means he was there to help you. (I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you.)
One of the top three lies ever told. The other two are: The check is in the mail.----- and ----- I will still respect you in the morning.
I love calling FEMA and getting the "Map Specialist". It's better when you call 3 times, get 3 different people along with 3 different answers.
And don't get me started on the ELOMA. I can't count the number of LOMAs and ELOMAs I have done. Not one regular LOMA has been audited. Every stinking ELOMA is! So I save the audit and results for prosperity. Make a note of the corrections and am sure to adjust on the next only to be audited and have changes made to resemble my original work.
OK, rant it over... Carry on.
joabmc, post: 355401, member: 10395 wrote: I love calling FEMA and getting the "Map Specialist". It's better when you call 3 times, get 3 different people along with 3 different answers.
And don't get me started on the ELOMA. I can't count the number of LOMAs and ELOMAs I have done. Not one regular LOMA has been audited. Every stinking ELOMA is! So I save the audit and results for prosperity. Make a note of the corrections and am sure to adjust on the next only to be audited and have changes made to resemble my original work.OK, rant it over... Carry on.
We get about 1 of every 4 or 5 audited.
I also get a different answer each time I call. I usually call until I get a repeat answer. Then I go with that option....usually.
I use the FEMA on-line chat to ask my questions...cut/paste to files...send copy along with application. Let them argue amongst themselves.
DDSM:beer:
FWIW,
I got a random email today from a flood plain manager a few counties over ... I must have gotten on their email list somehow. Anyway, it says the new form is not yet mandatory, and FEMA has given them no guidelines as to when or how to phase out the old ones, and the email lists the changes.
This is an interesting observation, though:
Section D, the certification page, was moved to the second page of the EC form. This may be an oversight by FEMA since the EC was modified years ago to include the certification on the first page to prevent the second page certification from being attached to incorrect or different first pages. Surveyors were finding their seal on the second page was stapled to multiple first pages that they did not actually complete.
I hadn't thought of that.
Good Afternoon,
This is just an update of changes that will be coming in regard to the FEMA Elevation Certificate and Floodproofing Certificate.
For those who have not heard, FEMA released the updated Elevation Certificate and Floodproofing Certificate Jan. 6 via an NFIP Bulletin W-16002.
Unfortunately, it has not yet been posted on FEMA's website nor did FEMA provide any indication of the changes made or when you must stop using the old ones.
The Association of State Floodplain Managers did undertake a review of differences between the new and old EC, and the following are some of the noticed differences:
The main one is the addition of Diagram 2B - Intended to address the situation where the bottom floor is below ground level (grade) on all sides. This is generally where the natural grade/fill is removed on one side to create an area that is often considered a walkout basement. The grade immediately adjacent to the structure on that one side may be at or below the bottom floor, however, since the area was dug out, the LAG must be taken at the existing grade before the material was removed and not adjacent to the structure.
The form is now on legal size paper
Currently, it is only in Adobe; there is no Word version. The Adobe pdf has some limitations. It can be opened in Adobe, and populated, but it cannot be saved (a warning notice pops up telling you that). If you want to save it, you must have Adobe Pro. Also, the photo section is a text field and you have to have Adobe Pro to convert it to an image field before pictures can be attached.
Page numbering starts on the cover sheet - 15 pages. On the old EC, page numbering started on the instructions page going from 1-9 and did not include the EC form.
Page 3 - added the statement at the top of the page: Copy all pages of this Elevation Certificate and all attachments for (1) community official, (2) Insurance agent/company, and (3) building owner.
The Property information inputted in Section A now auto-populates Section B3 and the subsequent pages where the property information is required. This is definitely a helpful improvement!
Section D, the certification page, was moved to the second page of the EC form. This may be an oversight by FEMA since the EC was modified years ago to include the certification on the first page to prevent the second page certification from being attached to incorrect or different first pages. Surveyors were finding their seal on the second page was stapled to multiple first pages that they did not actually complete.
In the "Comment" section, the following wording was added: including type of equipment and location. Per C2(e), if applicable
These forms are not mandatory to be used at this time and we will all need to become familiar with them. As we learn updates we will send them out.
IÛªve attached the FEMA OMB Notice and the revised Forms. If you have any questions/concerns please let me know.
Have a great weekend.
Sincerely,
Cindy Jolly, P.E., CFM
Floodplain Administrator/Project Manager
Well hopefully once the EC gets officially released on the website they will have the word version as well
All of this talk about ELOMA's and audits makes me nervous. I'm in the process of doing my first one and am about to tell the client I'm not doing it. These things are a P.I.T.A. and for a reason, they don't want people out of their subsidy program. They need that money. I don't see why I need to put my neck on the line for something like an ELOMA, BUT I could be looking at this all wrong...
hlbennettpls, post: 356105, member: 10049 wrote: All of this talk about ELOMA's and audits makes me nervous. I'm in the process of doing my first one and am about to tell the client I'm not doing it. These things are a P.I.T.A. and for a reason, they don't want people out of their subsidy program. They need that money. I don't see why I need to put my neck on the line for something like an ELOMA, BUT I could be looking at this all wrong...
How are you putting your "neck on the line"?
If it's your first ELOMA, you're going to get audited. I was originally told that your first 4 were going to get audited. That was about 50 ago! Ha!
It's not as big of a deal now. The ELOMA has evolved. One has to supply all supporting documents upfront when submitting the form. Let them audit away! I have provided them with everything to include the kitchen sink.
I submitted one this past Friday and received the audit notice.
During the submittal process I included:
-Deed
-Tax Map
-FIRMette
-MT EZ
-Table 5 Floodway Data
-Flood Profiles
-BFE determination
There is nothing more they could possibly need to perform the audit.
We collect the data and submit the forms. It's a pretty black and white task. FEMA determines the removal. We always make sure the client is aware that is ultimately up to FEMA. Yes, we are going to submit when the LAG is higher than the BFE and know that it "should" be removed.
But no need to stress about it. If your BMs are good and your confident in the fieldwork, you have nothing to worry about.
hlbennettpls, post: 356105, member: 10049 wrote: All of this talk about ELOMA's and audits makes me nervous. I'm in the process of doing my first one and am about to tell the client I'm not doing it. These things are a P.I.T.A. and for a reason, they don't want people out of their subsidy program. They need that money. I don't see why I need to put my neck on the line for something like an ELOMA, BUT I could be looking at this all wrong...
The eloma is great. You aren't putting your neck on the line.
When you do a loma on paper it's the same as being audited. Someone gets the paperwork and looks it over. That's all the audit is. They want to make sure you are doing it correctly bc future elomas will be approved the second you click submit with no review by someone at fema. So the audits are to keep the integrity.
Many times after an audit they correct things for me and put it through. Then they send an email with what I wrote and what they corrected it to written in red so I can see what they did and learn. They do not reprimand you.
It's easy, fast and sufficient.
The ONLY difficult thing is explaining to the client we can do an eloma which we will have right away with no wait....BUT 1 of every 5 gets audited and then we have to wait but we aren't in control of that.
One audit took like 4 weeks. But that's when they had changed the system and were backed up.
Some pass audit the same day, most are a day or two.
But eloma is a fantastic thing. And a great tool available to surveyors and non else.