AI Assistant
Notifications
Clear all

ECR or BCR, does it matter which is which?

18 Posts
13 Users
0 Reactions
1,961 Views
jdoswald
(@jdoswald)
Posts: 18
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I always use elevation to choose the BCR...water flows downhill so naturally the curve begins where the flowline is higher. My co-worker says it doesn't matter but that he puts the BCR on the more northerly of the 2. Maybe he's right that it doesn't matter, but surely on this forum someone has an opinion.


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 2:57 pm
steve-gilbert
(@steve-gilbert)
Posts: 678
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

What do you mean by BCR? Is it back of curb?


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 3:21 pm
Warren Smith
(@warren-smith)
Posts: 830
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

jdoswald, post: 326034, member: 8620 wrote: I always use elevation to choose the BCR...water flows downhill so naturally the curve begins where the flowline is higher. My co-worker says it doesn't matter but that he puts the BCR on the more northerly of the 2. Maybe he's right that it doesn't matter, but surely on this forum someone has an opinion.

We generally use the flow of traffic, even if it is uphill. That is, the beginning of a right hand turn = BCR. With one-way streets, YMMV.

Oh - we are talking Begin Curb Return, right?


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 3:43 pm
jdoswald
(@jdoswald)
Posts: 18
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Steve Gilbert, post: 326040, member: 111 wrote: What do you mean by BCR? Is it back of curb?

I'm referring to the begin or end of curb return.


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 4:05 pm
Warren Smith
(@warren-smith)
Posts: 830
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

What would you do if there was a high point in the middle of the return?


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 4:11 pm

jseace
(@jseace)
Posts: 23
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

report this in the direction you are going. it does not really matter, its just the way I do it


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 4:38 pm
jdoswald
(@jdoswald)
Posts: 18
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I think what matters is that you're consistent. My boss goes clockwise which would generally follow the flow of traffic method. Works for me. And I'll go with the guy who writes my reviews.


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 4:56 pm
dave-lindell
(@dave-lindell)
Posts: 1684
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I was taught the BCR is on the main street and the ECR is on the side street.

The plat and/or lath should clarify the situation if a grade sheet with stationing only is provided..


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 5:02 pm
eapls2708
(@eapls2708)
Posts: 1907
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

jdoswald, post: 326074, member: 8620 wrote: My boss goes clockwise which would generally follow the flow of traffic method. Works for me. And I'll go with the guy who writes my reviews.

I was going to suggest that you call both ends BCR on some of the returns, and both ends ECR on some of the other returns, deciding randomly, just to mess with the CAD guy who has to process your work. But your method sounds more prudent.


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 7:17 pm
summerprophet
(@summerprophet)
Posts: 471
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Where I work now it doesn't matter..... But what I was taught was this:

If standing in the middle of the intersection, looking at the curb, it begins on the right, and ends on the left.


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 7:38 pm

holy-cow
(@holy-cow)
Posts: 25672
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

You got me thoroughly confused with this comment.

" My co-worker says it doesn't matter but that he puts the BCR on the more northerly of the 2."

That's just crazy. It would make just as much sense to go from the street name starting closest to "B" and ending on the other street that is further from "B".

What would he do if one end was directly east of the other?


 
Posted : July 6, 2015 10:10 pm
foggyidea
(@foggyidea)
Posts: 3462
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

It depends on which way I'm walking. The curve begins when I encounter it and ends at the tangent.


 
Posted : July 7, 2015 9:10 am
scott-ellis
(@scott-ellis)
Posts: 1181
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I just use PC and PT, sometimes POC. I dont think it matter, as long as you can draw the curve in CAD.


 
Posted : July 7, 2015 9:21 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
Posts: 8310
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Scott Ellis, post: 326155, member: 7154 wrote: I just use PC and PT, sometimes POC. I dont think it matter, as long as you can draw the curve in CAD.

True for design topo. Naming BCR/ECR comes into play when designing the curb return. When staking, and preparing notes and cut sheets, I use whatever is on the plans.

Is there a civil engineering message board we can ask this question of?


 
Posted : July 7, 2015 10:06 am
paden-cash
(@paden-cash)
Posts: 11086
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

What happens if you reverse BCR/ECR? Do los manos build the curb upside down? :snarky:


 
Posted : July 7, 2015 10:11 am

scott-ellis
(@scott-ellis)
Posts: 1181
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Norman Oklahoma, post: 326159, member: 9981 wrote: True for design topo. Naming BCR/ECR comes into play when designing the curb return. When staking, and preparing notes and cut sheets, I use whatever is on the plans.

Is there a civil engineering message board we can ask this question of?

When staking out for construction we give them the ER's and then a Radius Point


 
Posted : July 7, 2015 10:21 am
Norman_Oklahoma
(@norman-oklahoma)
Posts: 8310
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Scott Ellis, post: 326163, member: 7154 wrote: When staking out for construction we give them the ER's and then a Radius Point

That's fine if a) the radius is not great and b) the grade is uniform from BCR to ECR. Neither is commonly the case in PDX. Staking 1/4 deltas is the common practice. Also need to account for w/c ramps.


 
Posted : July 7, 2015 12:16 pm
Mapman
(@mapman)
Posts: 651
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
  • Surveyors prerogative for topo. Whatever is traditional to your locale.
  • Check city/county for plat requirements - different according to each town. Some have a prescribed method.
  • The CE will change it anyway.

 
Posted : July 7, 2015 12:33 pm