I've been retracing a number of Sections. When I find a nice set marked stone it gets located and a few get rehabilitated then located. There also a number that need a new monument and those get new 3-1/4" aluminum caps. Another survey company was tying into mine and the young party chief who called me for information said, "you don't put a punch mark on your caps, I always do when I set one. That way you can tell where we located it."
I gave him my standard reply, "I stamp the cap exactly at it is shown in the manual, nothing is added except my number."
I suppressed my urge to laugh or to say "now think about it" because he was a nice "kid" and eager to do things correctly.
Particularly in this case where there are 6 landowners in the township (and one is the Feds and another the state) it really doesn't matter where on the cap the location was taken.
> I gave him my standard reply, "I stamp the cap exactly at it is shown in the manual, nothing is added except my number."
> Particularly in this case where there are 6 landowners in the township (and one is the Feds and another the state) it really doesn't matter where on the cap the location was taken.
That's an interesting attitude. So the corner you're marking is just any point within a 3.5-inch diameter circle? Is the idea that no one will ever be able to locate the corner any more exactly than that and you want to discourage them from believing that cadastral corners do have exact positions?
Whether to set a punch mark or not depends on who you are working for and to what precision/accuracy is required.
If you work for the BLM then your precision is "nearest minute nearest link". Therefore setting a punch mark is not required by the BLM.
If you work for the NGS then your precision level is much higher and a punch mark would be required.
As a Mineral Surveyor, I set punch marks on all my caps even though I represent the BLM but I am held to the level of precision/accuracy as a private surveyor.
If you are in private practice you are held to yet another level of precision/accuracy. Conventional equipment is still being used and a punch mark is needed to setup on.
In most cases, a punch mark should be set especially where buildings are constructed on the property line.
That's my two cents worth.
Jim Crume, P.L.S., M.S., CFedS
I am confused by this also.
When marking a PLSS corner isn't there a + to indicate the section corner that the marking applies? Don't you shoot the center of the + ?
Why wouldn't you set a punchmark to indicate where you took our shot? Around here that extra tenth or two can make a huge difference.
Whenever I locate stone walls and set a corner I set either a drill hole or a rebar and cap in the base of the wall.
I thought the Manual directed punch marks on mineral surveys. Don't have it here, so I might be confused.
In the 2009 BLM Manual of Surveying Instructions in Section 10-155 states that "The precise corner point is permanently indicated on the monument.".
I have seen monuments set by others, that do not set a punch mark.
As I have stated, I always set a punch mark on all caps that I set, regardless of who or what jurisdiction I am working under.
JC
Yes, every cap I set has a nice point to locate. Lot corners have the lots # and a diagram, section corners have a cross, 1/4 corners have a line between the section #'s, but no I don't punch mark any property corner I set. Really no need for it, and understand these are large surveys, 20,000 acres plus, in the one township there are two sets of buildings and only one of them is occupied, another survey I'm finishing up is in six townships and has one set of buildings and the fee property is +31,000 acres which doesn't include government inholdings.
I'm really not concerned that there is going to be a building built on a line. With these section monuments, either a stone or a metal monument, the whole monument is the corner.
Maybe I am not reading his post correctly, but it sounds like he is talking about corners that already have a stone at them. In this case the stone would be the monument, hence no punch mark.
I understand your logic to a point on large parcels, however why wouldn't you make a mark to set up over, not only for you, but for folks who follow in your footsteps, what is it going to hurt? Where there is no center mark on a monument, I pick the center of the monument and hope the last person did the same, but why leave that to the imagination? I have followed surveys before where the "mark" was NOT in the center of the cap, always bothered me, what if the cap was lost, melted in a fire or rotated, seems to me the logical thing is to always center the mark on the cap which is centered on the pipe or steel rod.
Agreed on stones, where I have left a stone in place, I place a coin at the setup point AND then place photographs in my files and the recorded document showing this, sometimes with an irregular stone, your choice for the "spot" could be quite a bit different than the next person, at least there is photo evidence of what you measured to. I think sometimes picking a different "spot" on the in place controlling corners contributes to the pincushion effect on dependent corners OR a reported discrepancy with the record, again narrowing down the precise "spot" on the monument is a good thing, it eliminates ambiguity in the future.
SHG
stencil them just like the manual shows-no additions except for the #. If they can't "follow" that then.....
I know a surveyor that is still practicing that if he finds a monument at the corner, even if it is a capped rebar, he will set his own capped rebar beside it to show that he accepted the monument.
> I understand your logic to a point on large parcels, however why wouldn't you make a mark to set up over, not only for you, but for folks who follow in your footsteps, what is it going to hurt?
The missing part may be that it's an RTK thing. If a surveyor has positioned a corner by a method with an inherent uncertainty of +/- 0.10 ft. or more, one can see how he or she might want to keep the exact position of the corner somewhat indefinite to avoid future embarrassment.
Not doing mineral surveys.
I mark the caps just as they are shown in the manual. I don't add anything except for my #. When they get marked that way there is no confusion how to do corner records even though we take pics. of them all.
That's so bad.
He should simply add some new flagging & pee on it.
The pee will leave his DNA that he accepted the rebar.:-)
this might explain what I'm talking about:
This is a cap set in 1965 that is stamped just how I do it:
This is a more recent cap stamped with a dot:
I've got nothing against doing it, but I'm not going to; I'm going to locate the SE of Section 8 at a point that is plenty identified to me.
Also I've seen caps with dots after the T,N,R,W in the township-range and after the S for section, again I've got nothing against doing that, but I don't do it.
> Agreed on stones, where I have left a stone in place, I place a coin at the setup point
Do you put a punch mark on the coin? :-/
> this might explain what I'm talking about:
>
> This is a cap set in 1965 that is stamped just how I do it:
>
>
Jeez. Wouldn't it have have been simple enough to have said that you mark the exact corner with a "+" instead of a punchmark? No problemo.
Why would you not mark your cap with a punch mark? I have found plenty of unmarked right of way monuments with absolutely nothing on the cap at all but have found very few if any properly stamped PLSS section corners without some sort of punch or X. It only takes an extra second or two to put a dot on your cap. Come on!
