And Those Pin And Caps Never Ever Move ?
Sheesh!
Paul in PA
I did say that-I mark them as the manual outlines them to be marked. This has saved me mucho amount of time.
Whenever one of my guys want to know how to stencil a cap I open the book up and show them where to find an example, I check it from time to time myself for some of the more unusual corners.
And I long ago decided not to add extra stuff to them. We mark hundreds of them so any savings in time adds up. Only control points get a punch.
And Those Pin And Caps Never Ever Move ?
LOL. Nope they never move; not even a millimeter.
ROW monuments get a punch, and a whole lot of other stamping, ask Pablo about that. I think he stamped 500 in the ground monuments this year for one project. Whew!
> And I long ago decided not to add extra stuff to them. We mark hundreds of them so any savings in time adds up. Only control points get a punch.
So, how much time do we think it takes to put a punch mark at the crossing of the "+"? Ten seconds? I'll grant that a small drill hole would be better, but a punch mark is quick and easy.
I had a CA State Hwy office surveyor tell me that anywhere on the cap or spike was close enough for them. Property values along that stretch of hwy we were on were only in the low million dollars.
I dunno, but we are just finishing up corner records for 360 section, 1/4 and 1/16 corners for one project and over 1/2 of those are new stenciled monuments that were hand stamped in the prescribed manner. Some firms add the company name, job #, all kinds of stuff to their sectional monuments, but they usually only set a few caps a year not thousands of them. So anything that isn't important on the cap is not placed by me including a punch mark, but if it's important to anyone then by all means go ahead.
Lets see, you are digging an 18"x15"x9" stone out of the ground (not to mention rehabing the slightly displaced ones) that has worked just fine for over 100 years as the corner, replacing it with a stable modern monument and cap, and people are worried about a dot so they can measure to the nearest millimeter? OK................
Carry on MM, you are doing just fine.
> Some firms add the company name, job #, all kinds of stuff to their sectional monuments, but they usually only set a few caps a year not thousands of them.
I'd think a surveyor would want to buy caps with some of that stuff pre-stamped on the caps. Name and number of responsible surveyor would be a natural for that. If you're setting large batches, possibly a project no. or a year. I suppose a company name would work if there were any room left, but I'd rather know who the responsible surveyor would be to contact in case of whatever.
> Lets see, you are digging an 18"x15"x9" stone out of the ground (not to mention rehabing the slightly displaced ones) that has worked just fine for over 100 years as the corner, replacing it with a stable modern monument and cap, and people are worried about a dot so they can measure to the nearest millimeter?
Well, either the corner has a position or it doesn't. An experienced surveyor determines the position marked by the stone and perpetuates that position with a new, permanent monument that marks the exact position of the corner, leaving a paper trail of the replacement in the public records. That's land surveying. Love the folks who claim to be surveyors but who are bothered by the idea that boundary markers should actually have exactly reproducible positions.
The surveyor's # gets stamped onto all caps.
Its the only info I add to my caps beyond the required information for a section corner.
For right of way projects I purchase pre-stamped caps with all the info that needs to go on all caps, but for section corners I want a blank cap that I can stamp myself, otherwise you purchase caps with a pre-stamped project and it doesn't get used and you're out in the garage grinding it off.
There are four surveyors in the shop registered in a number of states and there are pre-stamped caps with license #'s for each of us that can be loaded into the truck for each job, saves a bit of time. But from experience I've learned sometimes less is more.
Well, either the corner has a position or it doesn't
It does, it's the dot they put on top of the stone when it was set. You just have to look really hard sometimes to see it.;-)
A punch mark, such a tiny thing being the justification of complaints, insults and comments about surveying knowledge by Professional Surveyors, you all need to be ashamed of yourselves. Find a punch mark on a monument or a position that someone else chose to use on an old monument, be a man and use it or ignore it as you wish, note it in the narrative what you did, why does not matter to those who retrace you, what you did is what counts.
jud
As Bugs said it, What a bunch of maroons!
If one can actually find a referenced monument with a known pedigree anywhere in about 99 percent of where we work.....take it and run.....it is golden. Try to separate fly crap from black pepper if you have nothing better to do with your time.
Finding any monument is paramount. Finding one that might possibly still be somewhat straight is a different challenge. Finding one that has not been affected by one or more of the 47 methods to slightly alter it from the perceived location on the day it was put there is next to impossible. Shoot it eight times, then average your eight different answers, then pull out a microscopic center punch and hit it with a microscopic hammer. Then paint a solid circle a minimum of four feet in diameter with fluorescent paint around said monument after adding a minimum of 250 feet of flaming pink flagging, place six wire flags and build a protection cage to insure it will never be bumped in the future.
Has anyone ever found
Has anyone ever found a highway right-of-way monument that is not leaning, unless it has already been destroyed? Forget what it says in the book about how to set them, do you shoot the top/center, front or rear? How do you make adjust for the width of your pole against the surface of the monument? What do you do when the closest agreement between any two of fourteen found is about 17 feet? How about the ones you find that don't appear on the highway plans? After all else fails you end up shooting box culverts. Where did they find a NASA physicist to supervise installation/construction with a micrometer?
As Bugs said it, What a bunch of maroons!
One assumes a good surveyor would first set a sturdy and stable iron rebar, shoot it multiple times, then maybe bang it over a hundredth or two so the rebar is where he thinks it ought to be. Does he then set a punch mark on top of the rebar, or do we reasonably assume the rebar is centered on the point. No, you don't punch the top of the rebar?
Well, that aluminum cap is centered on the rebar, is it not? Isn't your estimate of the dead center of the aluminum cap just as good as the accuracy of the rebar? Does a punch mark in the center really increase the accuracy? We're probably talking about a fourth of the proverbial 0.04 feet, aren't we?
I dimple the cap so I can measure the same spot on the cap multiple times. In some cases the actual precise point isn't necessary for boundary purposes (as in timberland).
Other than that I follow the manual.
Has anyone ever found
I have, have even had some luck calling ODOT and asking them to reset monuments or to re-post them so some dumb surveyor will quit using C/L reference points as right of way monuments.
jud
As Bugs said it, What a bunch of maroons!
> Well, that aluminum cap is centered on the rebar, is it not? Isn't your estimate of the dead center of the aluminum cap just as good as the accuracy of the rebar? Does a punch mark in the center really increase the accuracy?
Well, in practice a surveyor will find that the process of setting an aluminum cap on a rebar driven in soil means leaving the rod up a bit so that the driving force of affixing the cap will bring it to intended level. Otherwise, the caps will tend to end up on the low side in my experience. Whenever you're driving a rebar, stuff can happen. So best practice is to put a Sharpie dot at the center of the cap, check it, punch the cap at the correct point which may be a couple of hundredths off center, and record the position of the corner as marked.
Having a punch mark on a cap does make the corner much more easily repeatable with a prism pole that actually has a point of some sort on it. It is not an improvement if one is locating boundary markers with a rod with a topo shoe.
Has anyone ever found
Maybe they dug a crooked hole.