Dang deed stakers. How can one resurvey a lot and completely ignore a half a dozen found pins that agree with each other? Why not research the neighboring deeds so that you can find a three foot bust that makes everything fit well? And not to mention, the original lot doesn't close by over 2.5 feet. I can't understand how one can plug in the numbers and stake the non-closing deed without at least looking at his found monumentation, which he shows on his survey, and noticing a pattern.
I guess growing up in the survey field when there were no electronics to simplify things, we learned how to analyze the information and not rely on coordinates only.
I feel better now.
> Dang deed stakers. How can one resurvey a lot and completely ignore a half a dozen found pins that agree with each other? Why not research the neighboring deeds so that you can find a three foot bust that makes everything fit well? And not to mention, the original lot doesn't close by over 2.5 feet. I can't understand how one can plug in the numbers and stake the non-closing deed without at least looking at his found monumentation, which he shows on his survey, and noticing a pattern.
> I guess growing up in the survey field when there were no electronics to simplify things, we learned how to analyze the information and not rely on coordinates only.
> I feel better now.
Probably set from someone found on Craigslist? LOL
Find em and floggem.
I feel your pain, but we've done it to ourselves. The one and two person crew model is destroying our Profession. I just had a conversation about why a young guy rejected monuments with a 114 year pedigree. Obviously smart but never mentored...
> Probably set from someone found on Craigslist? LOL
A trained engineer, no doubt.
It Will Get Worse
As more deed stakers get RTK, they will find one pin and place three others using deed bearings in whatever system their RTK is set up in.
Garbage input, trouble output.
Paul in PA
It Will Get Worse
RTK is the downfall of this profession.
Get'r done.
It Will Get Worse
If a tool, misused, can be the downfall of a profession, then it wasn't much of a profession in the first place.
IMHO...our licensing exams are not up to the standards of other professions.
Right after I was licensed I was an NCEES volunteer on the committee that sets the passing cut score for the principles exam. As we went through the exams question by question, a lot of the other members would say stuff like "we should cut some slack on this one, a new guy might not know that". I finally snapped toward the end of the day and said these aren't "new guys" if they pass this exam; they're license surveyors whose footsteps you have to follow and they need to know WTF they're doing. Didn't make many friends in the room that day.
This is what the state law portion of a licensing exam for a professional land surveyor should look like.
http://mdcourts.gov/ble/examanswers/2012/representativegoodanswers212.pdf
It Will Get Worse
I'm with Mr. Flemming. It won't be RTK that dooms our profession, it'll be crappy work and low professional ethics.
Dad tells me of a surveyor or two in the 70's that would use a cloth tape, tape from the nearest fence corner and split the curb. Viola, you have your missing lot corner.
We should hold ourselves to a higher standard of what it means to be a professional surveyor.
It Will Get Worse
I tend to agree. It's been my experience following behind boundaries done with gps that much evidence has been missed simply because it wasn't easy to access. Imo, if someone doesn't know how to sharpen a machete or brush hook or has never cut brush before, they shouldn't be allowed to sit for the exam.
It Will Get Worse
> If a tool, misused, can be the downfall of a profession, then it wasn't much of a profession in the first place.
:good:
It Will Get Worse
> If a tool, misused, can be the downfall of a profession, then it wasn't much of a profession in the first place.
Roger that!
I completely agree Theboinicman. I worked, was mentored by one of the best. Started in "77. I used to work with this other guy, "just give me the coordinates and we can set the point" didn't matter if it was on the line or not. He has no clue.
There are 1,001 reasons why surveyors plant pin gardens despite centuries of case law that require us to, at the very least, recognize the difference between a legal property corner and a mathematical point lying in some future surveyor's head.
This practice is the bane of the profession of surveying. The public LAUGHS at us for doing this (when they are not suing us in court).
No matter what they say, apart from some honest errors, those who practice multiple monuments are convinced that they MUST do it. In fact, there is no law or treatise anywhere ever written that says any such thing.
I spent over 20 years asking surveyors who do this why they do it. Despite this direct research, I can give you a simple answer to your question.
ww CO PLS
- Have a nice day! Or, may your monument prevail over some guy's touchscreen.
i meant to say I can NOT give you a simple answer to this question.
> I feel your pain, but we've done it to ourselves. The one and two person crew model is destroying our Profession. I just had a conversation about why a young guy rejected monuments with a 114 year pedigree. Obviously smart but never mentored...
It's a classic case of the eating of our young in the push for higher production in a market driven by economics and competition. To stay relevant and competitive, RTK is just a symptom of technology triumphing over the age old system of mentoring that used to be fostered by larger crews. Now it's sink or swim, feast or famine. Compete using technology over tried and true learned wisdom, or starve and perish. Deed stakers and button pushers are just the end result. A four year degree is valued over four years of mentoring and apprenticeship, learning the ways things used to be done to make one better able to follow in the footsteps of those who came before. RTK is just a tool. Unfortunately so are many of those employed in the field to use it. The end result shouldn't come as any surprise. 😐
Just the way I feel about it.
Y'all have a great weekend.
Willy out.
ahead of their time
These guys are just ahead of their time. Someday we will have everything coordinated so one will be able to run to a coordinate. Too bad for them the complete solution will be delayed because of their antics.
Preaching to the Choir
I hope!
I've been beatching about the healthy young technologists for a long time and I usually get dumped on for being an old curmudgeon.
"These sweet young folks are the future of Land Surveying. Crawl back into your cave."
Hah!
Also, get the hell off my lawn.
Don
Question 5
Question 5 fails to specify which brand/type of beer Rich was drinking when the windmill fell on him. I don't think the question is answerable because of that.
the IRS was the downfall of my business
I can't say robotics and RTK have not reduced the "mentorship"(or mentoring), of the new wave of surveyors ... but I can say, for me that until I became "non-compliant"(tax-wise), in late 1993 because of my then-secretary, I employed 2 office personnel and 2 full-time field employees plus a part-timer. I have had NO employees since then.
The IRS, along with the state, county and city tax requirements, more than anything else, taught me that going alone was actually more profitable(to me), and much, much, much, much, much less headache.
The on-job pathway to licensure(licensing), in my mind reduced new workers who found their hearts(sometimes by accident), in surveying to lose ambitions to becoming part of the new influx of tomorrow's professionals.
Don't get me wrong ... there's nothing wrong with a college education. It's just that, it appears to me, there's also nothing great about the bulk of the college-graduated, maybe slightly above entry-level surveyor's aides coming into the field, excepting that they are on their path to professionalism. They know things for sure, but in real-world terms, often, not much and they're often in need of "re" education when they get their first jobs
Add computers, RTK and robotics to this infuriating government interference and I say the government has given birth to the truly SOLO operator and the death of the mentorship(mentoring), that used to vest the more inquisitive, interested off-the-street workers up the ranks and into the professional ranks.
I wonder ... with less ... and less new surveyors being licensed, if in 10-20 years, the idea of a surveyor who actually does real on-job surveying will be a thing of the past ... like the ole dinosaurs.
