> (a) Locates, relocates, establishes, reestablishes, or retraces the alignment or elevation for any of the fixed works embraced within the practice of civil engineering, as described in Section 6731.
> (b) through (n) A whole bunch of other stuff.
So, you mean; when an engineer says the rebar need to be at 18" centers, a licensed land surveyor needs to lay that out?
Looks like you guys need a whole lot more inspectors....
> So, you mean; when an engineer says the rebar need to be at 18" centers, a licensed land surveyor needs to lay that out?
>
> Looks like you guys need a whole lot more inspectors....
No. But I see your point. If read very literally, even grade hops would need to be working under the direction of a LS. In reality, it's a pretty fuzzy line where the LS's responsibility ends and the contractor's begins (grade setter). It's gotten even fuzzier with the advent of GPS guided machinery.
BPELSG had a letter out a few years back that basically said that where machine guidance is used, a LS has to prepare the DTM, place and maintain the site control. Beyond that, the contractor can be responsible for the use of their GPS and machines to construct whatever they can construct or grade via machine guidance.
Not required in NH either.
Wish it was!!
No. Construction Surveying isn't "REAL" surveying. Everyone knows that 😐
The Great State of Texas.
> Is construction staking allowed in your state without the requirement of a license?
> (If you answer this question, please note which state you are from - thanx)
>
Yes. Idaho
The surveyors in Florida lost that fight with the construction lobby some time ago. Anyone can perform construction lay out now.
5J-17.052 Specific Survey, Map, and Report Requirements.
(b) Horizontal and Vertical Controls for Public and Private Construction Layout:
1. Section 472.003(3), F.S., provides an exemption from licensing for certain classes of individuals performing construction layout from boundary, horizontal and vertical controls that have been established by a licensed professional surveyor and mapper. This rule is designed to set out what constitutes horizontal and vertical controls.
a. Horizontal control monumentation for the purpose of this rule includes:
(I) Points of Curve, Points of Tangency, Points of Tangent Intersections, Points on Line and Points on Curve.
(II) Points of Intersection of other streets or roads.
(III) Angle points or changes in direction.
b. Horizontal control monumentation for road center-lines, right-of-way lines, reference lines or base lines shall be at least a minimum of two (2) points placed so that no point on the line being monumented is more than 700 feet from a control monument.
c. Horizontal control monumentation for main utility lines (such as water, sewer, storm drainage, electric, telephone, television, gas, etc.) when not constructed within or along a road right-of-way control in accordance with sub-subparagraph 5J-17.052(3)(b)1.b., F.A.C., shall be at least a minimum of two (2) points placed so that no point on the line being monumented is more than 700 feet from a control monument.
d. Horizontal control monumentation for buildings and/or primary constructions shall be at least:
(I) Boundaries, or
(II) Control or base lines (minimum of 2 points), or
(III) A minimum of a four-corner envelope for non-residential construction improvement layout.
e. Horizontal control monumentation required by plans as a control for horizontal location not included in sub-subparagraph 5J-17.052(3)(b)1.b., c., or d., F.A.C., shall meet the requirements of sub-subparagraph 5J-17.052(3)(b)2., F.A.C.
(c) All construction requiring benchmarks shall have a minimum of two (2) existent or established benchmarks for vertical control.
(d) Vertical control for linear type construction sites such as roads and sewer lines shall have a maximum of 1,100 feet between existent or established benchmarks.
(e) Vertical control for acreage construction sites shall have two (2) existent or established benchmarks on the first ten (10) acres plus an additional benchmark for each additional ten (10) acres.
(f) The only required documentation for this type of survey product shall be field notes.
here is the Ohio board opinion on the subject. It seems that more and more of our "professional work area" is being taken from the surveyors in the state.
April 30, 2009
Mr. Thomas L. Cuni
Cuni, Ferguson & LeVay Co., L.P.A.
Attorneys at Law
10655 Springfield Pike
Cincinnati, Ohio 45215-1120
Re: Construction Layout Services
Dear Mr. Cuni:
This letter is in response to your letter of April 8, 2009 concerning an individual who wishes to provide construction layout or construction staking.
Ohio Revised Code Section 4733.01 (F) defines the practice of surveying as:
“Practice of surveying” means any professional service that requires the application of special knowledge of the principles of mathematics, the related physical and applied sciences, and the relevant requirements of law for the adequate performance of the art of surveying, including, but not limited to, measuring the area or the contours of any portion of the earth’s surface, the lengths and directions of the bounding lines, and the contour of the surface, for their correct determination and description and for conveyancing for recording, or for the establishment or re-establishment of land boundaries and the platting of lands and subdivisions; and like measurements and operations involved in the surveying of mines, commonly known as “mine surveying.”
Ohio Revised Code Sections 4733.02 and 4733.22 provide that no person shall practice, or offer to practice, the profession of engineering or the profession of surveying without being registered or exempted in accordance with sections 4733.01 to 4733.23 of the Revised Code. Furthermore, Ohio Revised Code Section 4733.16 provides that only firms that are registered with this Board may provide surveying services in Ohio; so in effect there are two license requirements – as an individual and as a firm.
The activities referenced in your letter may be carried out by an unlicensed individual when the individual is in the direct employment of a general contractor and the activities are incidental to the contractor’s scope of work. However, please be advised that contractual obligations imposed by the owner often dictate that these same activities be performed under the direction of a registered surveyor. Additionally, the map, plan, or drawing, on which the construction plans are based, along with any associated control points established by a professional surveyor, must be strictly adhered to. To make changes to the professional surveyors work product, or to establish different control points, would constitute the illegal practice of surveying.
An unlicensed individual or a firm not registered in accordance with ORC 4733.16, may not offer, provide or contract for surveying services. Even if the unlicensed individual, who is not working for a licensed firm, were to engage a professional surveyor to assist with the project, the unlicensed individual would be in violation of ORC 4733 by offering and/or contracting to provide surveying services.
It is the Boards opinion that the offer to provide construction staking service to the public (by an unlicensed individual and/or unlicensed firm) would constitute the illegal practice of surveying and is not permissible under ORC 4733.
Sincerely,
OHIO STATE BOARD OF REGISTRATION FOR
PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS AND SURVEYORS
John F. Greenhalge
Executive Director
> No. Construction Surveying isn't "REAL" surveying. Everyone knows that 😐
>
>
> The Great State of Texas.
Roadie:
As someone who worked heavy construction for years in the 70's, I take umbrage at your remark. Construction surveying just isn't Land surveying. And I take umbrage with those land surveyors who maintain such an attitude. Especially those who would *&^%@$ by the numbers on heavy construction, which is a substantial percentage of those who are licensed/registered as land surveyors.
:-@
I never give out my control information and rarely give anyone a DWG file. It's usually people who under bid everyone assuming they'll have all the other persons files to work from. Usually I get a call from the layout person asking for the files, when I tell them I bid on the job and I don't release files anyway they get upset and hang up on me. I then get a call from my client or a subsequent owner saying they never received a digital copy of the work. I'll let them know that our original contract never provided for a digital copy but I'll be glad to send them a pdf of it. However, I can send tham a copy of the dwg file for a fee, usually the amount I bid on the layout work. I don't usually hear back from them.
Not required in Rhode Island but it should.
> where does the control come from and what is it related to? it ALL ties back to a boundary.
well, kinda, except for those bigger projects that do not connect to the exterior boundary lines.
In my experience that would be Military, Winery, Theme Parks, Estate Homes... and many more.
In the areas I have worked it usually has been pretty easy to determine when any anticipated construction is not near boundaries, easements, or setback lines... but your work locations may be different.
Construction surveying is my favorite kind of surveying. You get instant results. It's fun watching things you lay out come together, sometimes within minutes of laying it out.
Or looking back after setting 25 stakes and seeing a perfect straight line for a road job.
There should be a license mandate, so I can do more of it when I get my license.
In Louisiana, nope.
License only required for boundary surveying.
I did the topo, design and layout staking for a commercial project recently.
Got a call from the construction forman. Told me a bunch of my elevations were off by up to a half a foot on some large footings they just poured. They decided to check the foundations before setting columns.
They used my control and their lazer level.
I go out there to see what the problem is. Am pretty confident my work is good due to my quality control process.
Check the foundations, they match what they are supposed to.
I ask the foreman if he had pegged his level recently. Blank stare. I asked if he knew what pegging a level meant. Blank stare.
So yeah. I think its good that CA requires a surveyor or PE to oversee construction staking.
At least as far as anything that is critical as to line and grade.
That's impressive. We do mainly sitework with the occasional roadwork generally only if there is a ton of earthwork or it is new construction. How do you like the machine control arena?
> How do you like the machine control arena?
Its the Bee's knee's. I really dont know which is more impressive, the grading MC or the paving.
Does anyone remember the POB cover a couple of years back where an outfit out of AL claimed they were getting great results with GPS in the trees for topo? It was saving their clients tons of money and really doing great things for their firm. I think I posted something about it on the old board at the time. I knew at the time there were guys out there 'stretching the limits of the equipment', but it takes balls or lack of brains to go and brag about it in the national rag.
Why're you posting photos of half finished work? LOL
Hurry up and get that thing finished. I figured y'all would be done before I got back.
Same story here in Belgium, one need to be licensed only for boundary.
Chr.
I'll through my hat in against any guy doing Heavy Civil or High Rise work and I probably could have started some sort of business without a license. But to do any infrastructure work for the Government here in NY, you need to present E&O insurance. How do you get Professional Liability insurance if you're not a professional?
On another note, there is an individual offering these services as Minority. He's clearly listed as offering "Surveying Services". This guy's not licensed. In NY State in order to qualify for this, the Owner (51%)claiming Minority Status needs to be licensed.
Now this guy couldn't pass the test if I stood there and gave him the answers.
It really doesn't matter to me, but I find it interesting.
Ralph