Considering Equipment upgrade - need advice

Before you go out and purchase TWO dual-frequency GPS receivers with radios, check out the coverage of the Mississippi GPS Real Time Network in your area of the state along with cellphone coverage. It could be that you might need only one receiver and not two. That can have a significant affect on your capital outlay budget.

Brand names can be more a function of dealer support than price.

Keep in mind I have not surveyed in several years now.
But, my last job we used the Trimble S6 and a 360 prism on the rod. I don't recall the data collector since I rarely was on the rod myself. Personally, I would prefer the Carlson 600+ with SurvCE. Actually, I only solo'ed with it twice and I think I had the TDS Ranger. (I really don't recall)
It does have reflectorless and was awesome when solo and I had to take shots on roadway paint stripes in 5 lanes of traffic and no one to watch my back. Actually, I never set foot in the roadway at all. That day I shot probably well over a hundred shots from one setup including the roadway (stripes and curbs), sidewalks, signage, building face with corners and utility poles.

Caveats: It might be kind of pricey. All robotic instruments LOVE to "chase cars". (my experience) Our S6 liked to hit on signs, license plates and brake light lense covers and the reflective stripes on safety vests. That's probably why we usually had the two of us. I would stay with the gun to be sure it was "looking" at what we wanted it to. Personally, I hated packing that hard case - but that's me.

I can't speak to the RTK/GPS capabilites. I think we borrowed someone else's equipment for that. Here in GA it is eGPS (Enhanced) which I understood to be quite like GPS on steroids. I remember several times we would hit a published NGS benchmark somewhere nearby and I would enter in the coordinates to some other published thingy and the DC would give me directions. As navigator with the DC and the antenna out the window I would simply give the driver, Chris, directions based on what the DC was telling me. Thank God both of us had excellent senses of compass directions.

That's my 2 pence. I'm sure others will chime in.
E.

My general advise is to first shop for the data collector & office software combination that suits you best, then get the hardware you need to run it.

If'n I was you, I'd look hard at the RTN networks in your area. If you can, use them for location control. Then, buy a rover, but get a robot and rover the same brand just to make your life easier.

We run trimble gear. R8 and 5700, base and rover, with a VX spatial station. The VX is a 1" robot that will scan. I've used the scanner once, so you don't need that.

For big jobs, that are somewhat open, use the GPS to get you there then the robot to tie it in.

For the life of me, I do not understand, other than monetary items, why one man shops continue to use old techniques and gear. You guys are working 10 times harder than necessary for approx. $500 more a month when you figure the note on the gear. That's equivalent to financing 27 large over 5 years. If business is bad enough that $500/month is going to break it, then you may want to rethink the business model and raise rates.

I have been a weekend and summer guy for the past 18 years - and I have gone full-time as of July 1 this year now that my previous employer (a community college) closed my drafting and design technology program that had a surveying option! It was because of a perceived "lack of interest" and "low student numbers" while in reality, a non-career/technical administration did not understand the construction industry or the dynamics of the ecomomy. Go figure....

My existing system worked well for my style of business. Now that I am full time, it's time to upgrade. I agree, I want to work 10 times LESS in the field.

I appreciate your time and consideration.:-)

:good:

Sounds like you're thinking in a positive direction. So, the word of the day is "synergy". What gear will you get, and at what price, that will produce synergy in your work product? There are always more than one way to skin a cat, and it sounds as if you've had your name out there long enough to have built a name vs. starting new, so $500 to $700/month for new gear should be doable.

I want GPS with static capability to connect to the NSRS, period. GPS that will not do that, in my opinion, is worthless, because WHEN you need that static shot where radio will not reach, then you're losing money in time to set points, move bases, all because of the non-static option. With a RTN, this is less necessary, and I'm not aware if you can or cannot get an RTN rover with static capability. Next, you can't GPS everything, and damnit, I hate to walk back and forth between the rod and the gun any freaking more than necessary, so buy the robot. There are excellent models, used, for a great price, some have even been sold on here.

Next, and this is where I fail, but software. Do you use F2F, if not, and you're really the one man shop, why not let technology work for you. We've been busy enough, and my crews can screw up a train wreck, that codes were going to be a big big problem, so we never really investigated it much like Shawn and J.D. have. Both are licensed so they both have the same vested interest in it, just like you.

If you can sell what you have to pare down the note, then I'd do it in a heartbeat. No time before can I remember people wanting to have notes so much with so little in interest payments. So do yourself a favor, get the gear, get the software, make the note, and work less and make more.

If you are looking at a RTN network, make sure to figure out any cost to tie into it. We looked at a system that would tie into a RTN, and it was going to cost us $4500 a year for fees, plus the cost of a cell phone and data plan. That will pay for a second GPS unit in a few years. The big advantage of a RTN is you don't have to mess with setting up a base, and you don't have to worry about your base being stolen.

Recommendation:
1. Purchase best data collector you can afford based upon support. I am personally happy with Carlson's support.

2. RTN GPS+GLONASS capable (assuming the RTN in your area has tech from this century and can do both GPS and GLONASS). Single receiver only, if RTN works in your area. Purchase based upon dealer support, compatibility with your data collector (this should not be a big deal), capabilities of the receiver, and price.

3. Modern Robot. (We need a new one too, so no recommendation here.)

Explanation:

I agree with researching the RTN usage in your area. Then you would not need two receivers to do either static or RTK (at least here, the WSRN.org CORS data is available for download for post processing).

One comment on that though: in very challenging situations, I find that nothing beats having a base station a couple of hundred feet away looking at exactly the same sky as the rover. (And if you do not have cell coverage, no RTN.)

I am, personally, not sure why you would need to do static with RTN. We used to do that, but after doing both for a bit, we decided that it was more accurate and precise to simply use the RTN. And, since the WSRN CORS are tied into the NGS CORS (are the NGS CORS in some cases), the differences in the solutions between OPUS and an RTK with RTN are negligible. In our experience, using the RTN produces better results.

Doing static yourself will require more outlay of money (software), and A LOT of education about post-processing. I do not say that it is a bad investment, because understanding these processes help you understand what is happening with RTK.

my $0.02 worth.

> I am a one-man company right now, and I am currently running a Lieca TCR 1105 long range prismless total station, and I am very pleased with it. I am running an old HP48gx with TDS when I need a data collector. I am a dual registrant (MS PE/PS) and mainly do survey boundary work in Northeast Mississippi.

Run your total station to the ground, you are very pleased with it, so why not try to get another 2-3 years out of it.

Get yourself three Ashtech Static+PPK receivers and the post-processing software GNSS Solutions. Using three receivers simultaneously will give you closed loops and a backup in the field should one fail.

The post-processing software is well designed and easy to use. One thing I really like in the software is seeing those CORS station automatically appearing on the screen in the vicinity of your work as you bring in the data.

I don't use Ashtech but if I was a boundary surveyor in non-extreme weather region, I'd probably get them. 3 or 4, lots of baselines. The software is user friendly. You already have an educational background, you will have no problem figuring it out.

Whatever you decide, I would suggest to stick with one GNSS manufacturer. Mixing and matching data from various manufacturers with RINEX is not an easy task and may introduce errors in your work due to various reasons. It is a lot easier to work with one manufacturer.

RTK is expensive. Do you really need it?

My Leica TCRP1203 has never chased a car in 7 years. Its a good dog! I say RTK base and rover.

I was gonna say the exact same thing. In 7 years our 1203 has never chased anything either.

We use a 1203 "smart station", has the GPS receiver inside the TS and mounts the antenna on top (on the TS plumb line).

So, every TS setup, you can record static while you are there, less stuff to set up, one set of legs for both.

The firmware disables tracking while the GPS antenna is mounted, but the powersearch and the ATR still work. This turns out to not be any handicap at all, and it is just as fast as the tracking mode to work within the ATR window (ours is set to 5 degrees) or hit the powersearch button if you have moved outside of that. It also doesn't burn the battery nearly as fast as tracking, since you are only running the motors when you are ready to take a shot.

So at the end of the day, you might have 10 setups with 45 minutes of static at each, send them to OPUS-RS and rejoice. Plus all those are tied with TS measurements, so you can put it all in least squares and see how good the GPS points really are.

I do not mean to make your decision harder, but I will 🙂 I do very much the same work you describe and same conditions (always fighting tree cover). I would give up my GPS (Trimble bass/rover) before I would give up my 12 year old robot (Topcon).
Yes, the GPS is a great time saver on PLSS section breaks, but how often will you be doing this? I use the GPS about once every two weeks. Think hard about how often you will be making use of it.
The robot: go try one out, if you have not already. They are amazing for topos and small lot surveys.
Speaking of trying things out, the equipment sales people around here are happy to demo equipment on actual jobs, have you checked into this?
Best of Luck,
Scott

Thanks, guys! There has been a lot of good advice given from experienced users.
There are many things to consider, and having read through this and other threads, I have learned a lot of good information. I appreciate your time and consideration!:-)

Unleash the rodents!!!!!

😐

I have seen very little 'stray tracking' with a TS15, but with my current Trimble it is a constant problem and the biggest drawback.

RTK when properly used is definitely a game changer and even better when used in conjunction with conventional. In this regard I would lean towards Leica Viva for seamless integration between GPS and TPS. That being said customer support is crucial especially when introducing GNSS, my experience with the Leica supplier in western Canada has been excellent, but that might not be the case everywhere.

> Thanks, guys! There has been a lot of good advice given from experienced users.
> There are many things to consider, and having read through this and other threads, I have learned a lot of good information. I appreciate your time and consideration!:-)

hello harold

i have used the latest total station (S6 & VIVA & 1200) and GPS (R8 & 1200) offerings at the time from both trimble and leica in my last 2 jobs.

i found nothing between the two as far as the GPS units was concerned and would happily spend my money on either.

total stations are a different matter altogether.

the trimble total stations would track ANYTHING remotely reflective which makes the active tracking prism setups a must in urban areas ($$$$).

i cannot recall the 1200 leicas ever tracking anything other than a glass prism. and, more recently, the vivas have not had a problem either.

the reflectorless capability is different also. the leica is fussy but very accurate. the trimble DR instruments will return more distances but are (were?) far less accurate, even sometimes wrong under certain conditions. if you go for a leica don't waste your time on the 400m reflectorless. just buy the 1000m reflectorless.

the trimble radio connection to the controller was often troublesome and range was poor. the 1200 leica radio range was exceptional and robust. the leica VIVA range is far less than the 1200 but still longer than the trimble, and again, usually robust.

there is no need to use anything other than the controller software provided with the leica or the trimble, unless you have some peculiar requirements.

after being made to use both, i would now only spend my money on a leica.

good luck.