@olemanriver
I apprecviate you sharing your story, and the advice as well. I will keep at it!
@native1 here is some more. Never take financial advice from someone who is broke. There are many wise licensed professionals here that have made a successful career in land surveying. Look to them. They can help guide you better than I. If you ever need anything never hesitate to ask. I can usually get you an opportunity. And next. Before making a life changing decision you do that with your wife. Discuss the pros and cons together. The financial hardships that it could bring the long hours etc. I have been blessed beyond what I deserve my wife now was a main force in me leaving a very good paying government job to one get my dream of farming off the ground and up and running as well as taking a leap back into the land surveying side of the house. When your wife is supportive and understands the consequences and such you cannot loose. As she will be right there on those bad days keeping you focused. When I took my early retirement to work part time in surveying she was right there supporting me. I learned my lesson from my past mistakes. Now any major decisions we come together we discuss we think talk and try to come to the decision together. Let me tell you when I left the government. In a week of 40 hours on pvt sector side it was an easy day at the government pay wise. Now it took years of saving and doing with out to get to that point to where we could do what I am now. I still make about half of what I could be making but this place I am at now so far has been a awesome choice. I mean I have 2 tremendous seasoned LS to get me ready for the next step. Another LS that is about my age that runs everything that allows me to show my skills and broths to the team. As we are slowly making process and procedure changes that better make use of the tech we have along with tweaking some this to have better quality products. I will say when you teach those with you both above and below you learn way more. So I have never been shy about showing a better way. I spend time on my own testing it until I am satisfied it is ready for prime time then I take that to the bosses and show them explain and the mull on it until they are ready. Baby steps when making changes. But that’s the wisdom of those guys above me and knowing better than I about those who will have to use the new methods and there reactions. Good luck. In whatever path you take. And if you make a decision and it doesn’t pan out it’s OK to fail. You will learn from that also. I know I have.
Some more of my $.02:
Wow, you have a 14 month old; congrats! I have a 2.5 year old so it wasn't all that long ago when I was in your shoes.
If you don't feel safe in your neighborhood, I think you may be stressed and frustrated when your child gets mobile and needs to go run, walk, stomp in puddles, or ride a bike. We are constantly outside playing in our yard or enjoying the sidewalks.
For what it's worth, I'd take the pay cut and make the move.
I recommend looking beyond the future of your career today and looking at the future of land surveying.
As an unlicensed field exclusive land surveying technician, what exactly do you foresee yourself doing in the future?
Construction Staking:
Suffice to say there will be less and less construction staking. More squirrels than nuts.
Bottom line, a lot of words to say there will be little or nothing for you to do as an unlicensed field only union member in the coming years. Have no illusions, your position is behind the boss's son, the person that has been there 20 years and the neighbor's kid.
Get licensed.
My Apologies to Mr Woolley for trimming out the additional details for these clear concise Osmium nuggets of wisdom.
For those who don't know, Mr. Woolley has produced a series of videos, posted to youtube, that are worth watching.
Decided to take the job with the county. Thanks to those who've shared their opinions and stories. I appreciate it, and it was exactly what I was hoping to see by asking - many different angles that I hadn't thought of from people who have been down the road longer than me.
Thanks
@native1 Late response I guess but I'd just say if you're not planning to stay in the state for more than 5 years then it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to agonize over the short term.
I finished school when I was 39 so I have a little bit of an idea of what it's like to get rolling late, and I'd recommend doing what needs to be done to get licensed. The license should bring the money and the money makes everything else more manageable.
With regard to getting licensed......... Licensing doesn't place you at the top of the career ladder. What it does is put you on a taller ladder with far more rungs that can be climbed.
Congrats on the new gig. I think you will find that it is a good decision. Please keep us informed!
@norman-oklahoma Thanks Norman, I haven't heard it put that way before. I appreciate the insight, and I'll be around on here reading and asking questions for sure. I always enjoy following along and trying to learn a thing or two.
Hello,
similar situation here.
I am also finishing my degree at Umaine. 2 years took 4. Great program though to help surveyors get their degree.
5 years ago I left my high paying consultant field job to work with a local surveyor to gain experience for licensure. Big pay cut no insurance/retirement. New born and purchased our house the same time. It was hard. I also started at Umaine then. All to get licensed and pursue the best option for my family. 1.5 years ago I switched to the DOT to get insurance/retirement as our second child was expected and the prospect of a good licensed position in the next 5 years with normal hours. I ended up getting licensed and moved to the top in under 1.5 years. Finishing the degree I no longer need because I already have the loans.
Always think 5-10 years in the future. It’s hard but if you make the best possible decisions on that timeline more than likely you will “luck out”.
Always think 5-10 years in the future. It’s hard but if you make the best possible decisions on that timeline more than likely you will “luck out”.
Wasn't Vince Lombardi the guy that said luck is the product of preparation? Sometimes it seems pretty true.
Wasn't Vince Lombardi the guy that said luck is the product of preparation?
A Roman Senator named Seneca wrote "Luck is where preparation meets opportunity" in the first century AD.
@olemanriver "Now I left the private sector at the beginning of the year 2000. I was on track to be very successful in land surveying. I was right at 6 figures when I left and joined the USMC."
Thank you for your service, I'm sure that we all appreciate it, but soon to be 25 years ago you were at 6 figures, without being licensed or in responsible charge?
@chris-bouffard yes sir. I make less right now than I did in 1999. But I was working 70 hrs a week back then. Now 5 years ago I was being paid by tax dollars and to be honest I think I was over paid then for the work I did. I learned a lot. That I have applied to surveying that I believe is priceless. Now I try and teach everyone I know so they make better decisions in their workflows when using gps . All the new signals we see today and in the future will be amazing and it will slowly change the way surveyors look at statements like closures. I am sure you remember Dick Tracey and his watch. Think about what can be achieved today in a matter of a few minutes with RTk then apply that dick Tracey from back then to the next 10 years. Measuring will become so easy much easier than today. Lidar GNSS imagery. Ground penetrating radar wait until they all become integrated . I mean we can do lidar with our phones make precise measurements with a phone app. It’s why I am trying to cram my brain with as much boundary knowledge as possible.
I appreciate the military gesture for sure. I don’t regret that time either. Honestly only reason I didn’t stay longer in the USMC was because I failed at my 1st marriage and wanted to be with my kids. I enjoyed that time and it helped me overcome a lot of shortcomings. Now I have a wife that has made me even better. Maybe I will continue to develop and improve before I kick the bucket.
sorry for the dick Tracey analogy but my wife just got one of those fancy watches and our Samara tracing her how to use it and whenever I see her texting or reading her heart rate answers call I can’t help but think of that famous watch oh and inspector gadget as well. We have come along way from my Swiss Army knife days.
I've read your post and the responses that have been posted thus far and will offer some things to consider as well.
I've been surveying for 42 years, licensed at 28 years old. I began my career in the early 80's at the start of the building boom here in NJ. I've had hands on exposure to most types of land surveying tasks including government work and working on union sites where we had to hire union rodmen to sit in the truck all day to keep them out of our way, if we didn't do that, the steel would stop rolling and all of the operators would go home.
What I can tell you through my experiences is that you will probably never gain experience on any boundary survey work as a union surveyor, most, if not all of your work will be in layout. I can only speak for the county that I grew up in and say that the county surveyors really don't do much except minor layout and stake checking with all of the boundary work being subbed out to the private sector.
Money is a huge factor and with the right position, you are better off managing your own retirement account. I have lost two pension account as a result of recessions and a layoff that forced me the use the money to keep my family stable. There was a time about 20 to 25 years ago where I was offered the position of County Surveyor and had to refuse it because it would have meant an almost 50% pay cut from my job as a Sr. PM for a private sector firm.
Most people think that a public job affords job security regardless of economic conditions and that's not true. In your current situation, I'm assuming that you make a decent income in your small union shop and it sounds like your free benefits are going to change. In your case, you state that you will be where you are for less time than it takes to become vested in your pension system and also suffer a significant loss of wages to make the move while having a young child.
When you talk about the work that you are putting in to becoming licensed, I don't see that holding one position or the other is going to increase the time that you have to study, especially with a young child. You also mentioned, I believe, that your wife is a teacher and as such, is probably licensed to teach in the state that you currently reside in.
If I were in your decision making position, I would be looking to see what kind of survey work is available where you are looking to relocate to. I would focus on looking at firms to get a grip on what kind of wages are being offered and what type of mentoring that you could get on the boundary end with the possibility of an inside/outside split, that would give you the best chances of connecting the data collection to the resolution process. Private firms should surely pay better than the county position will but not as much as the union is paying.
What will be the game changer for you is getting licensed and using that license in a position of charge, once you are licensed, your leverage changes and you become more in demand and at a significantly higher pay rate. If your wife can secure the relevant teaching certificate or license in the state that you intend to relocate to, chances are that her position would be unionized and provide good healthcare for the family, although, probably not free but if that can happen, she can insure the family and you could have a position to negotiate with your potential employer for higher pay because on her health plan, they won't have to pay their share of your family premiums.
Also, keep in mind, you will need several (probably 5) licensed professional references who can attest to your work history and you are likely not going to get them in one shop.
To make a short story long, just some things to chew on and sorry for the book.