Bruce Small, post: 326083, member: 1201 wrote: I have a request from a California attorney to convert a lot and block description in Tucson to a metes and bounds, which we do not do in Arizona, so she will get a polite but firm refusal. That got me wondering: Is there a rule for that in California?
Bruce:
I searched through my Wattles books for an answer regarding the describing of lots in a subdivision, but didn't spot anything. I know I've seen a direct answer pertaining to this somewhere in one of my many books in my library. Anyhow, I will attempt to attach a PDF of a scan from Skelton's, Boundaries and Adjacent Properties.
Tom Adams, post: 326211, member: 7285 wrote: While true, an attorney might think exactly the opposite and want to take out all of that nonsense like lot and block, because you have perfectly clear bearings and distances. (and that attorney is legally qualified to interpret the law).
But the attorney is not qualified to determine the quality of the measurements. If the attorney wants to follow the law, he or she should take note of the many appellate and supreme court opinions (both state & federal) that recognize that measurements are among the least reliable elements of a description.
Tom Adams, post: 326211, member: 7285 wrote: I could write a description as others have suggested calling to the lot and block lines making them senior, etc., but I think that is a bad idea.
I agree. But sometimes holding up a multi-million-dollar transaction is an even worse idea.
Bruce Small, post: 326083, member: 1201 wrote: I have a request from a California attorney to convert a lot and block description in Tucson to a metes and bounds, which we do not do in Arizona, so she will get a polite but firm refusal. That got me wondering: Is there a rule for that in California?
After going round and round for two days, me trying to keep my helpful Dale Carnegie hat on, we finally had a meeting of the minds this morning. The bottom line is she didn't know what a metes and bounds is, at all. She knew the words but had no idea of the meaning. What she really wanted was some dimensions with arrows on the excluded parcels. I thought the bearings and distances along our boundary were clear enough, but what the heck. It did no harm and could clarify, so I added them.
I always strive to be helpful and make a new friend instead of maintaining animosity. I think only once have I told an attorney, "If you ask me one more time to sign that certification I'm walking on the project. Just one more word." (He got the hint.)
Even in Texas, we get that request from time to time. I typically have to work to find the person who really requested it, then barrage them with questions wondering why they would want to create junior/senior rights inside of something that is working as a simultaneous conveyance. Sometimes they don't care. They never get it though.
I have had the occasional need to write one in a subdivision, but only under extraordinary circumstances.
Bruce Small, post: 326083, member: 1201 wrote: I have a request from a California attorney to convert a lot and block description in Tucson to a metes and bounds, which we do not do in Arizona, so she will get a polite but firm refusal.
Has anyone ever asked why they need that?
It's an odd request; is there a standard checklist somewhere that keeps popping up that says this a requirement.
I had a city reviewer once, ask for a metes and bounds description for every single lot in my plat. I told him I would be happy to do that if he could show me, in the cities code, where it said I had to do that. He backed down when he found that there wasn't one.
What if you gave her a description, something like; lot 7, blah blah blah; more particularly described as follows:
Beginning at the Northeast corner of said lot 7; Thence in a southerly direction to the southeast corner of said lot 7; thence blah blah blah.
I hope you have a great day, I know I will!
Doug
[bump]
California's Subdivision Map Act section 66499.30 (c) says:
"Conveyances of any part of a division of real property for which a final or parcel map is required by this division or local ordinance shall not be made by parcel or block number, initial or other designation, unless and until the final or parcel map has been filed for record by the recorder of the county in which any portion of the subdivision is located."
It is so ingrained here, that we normally don't hunt for the statute that declares it.
Query: I have often wondered about the legal status of a "Re-Plat" of a part of a subdivision.
Can this be used to circumvent a "Home Owners Association"?
Can a lot or adjoining group of lots be re-plated after being conveyed the first time?
Can what this lawyer asked for be considered a re-plat?
partychief3, post: 331211, member: 9053 wrote: Query: I have often wondered about the legal status of a "Re-Plat" of a part of a subdivision.
Can this be used to circumvent a "Home Owners Association"?
Can a lot or adjoining group of lots be re-plated after being conveyed the first time?
Can what this lawyer asked for be considered a re-plat?
Here a replat is just a term to describe a subdivision of already subdivided land when a new name is not applied to the subdivision. It would not remove any covenants related to HOA's. Covenants are agreements between private parties and can not be altered by the public authority approving the plat. Plat note restrictions can be removed or altered.