Becoming a LLS

Get him drunk, then get him to do something stupid, document it, then blackmail the SOB.B-)

I think I'd listen to Mr Roadie. Money talks. Likely more in being a top shelf party chief than a liability ridden PLS. Work more, yes. But sleep better, yes.

Nobody ever gets advanced in life staying with the status quo. Move on grasshopper if that is your goal. If bozzman is so anal he can't recognize your value..... the door swings both ways. Just do not burn bridges on your way up.

Best of luck to ya

Become a member of your local chapter and get to know another Surveyor who might help you out.

> Become a member of your local chapter and get to know another Surveyor who might help you out.

I have been a member of the local chapter and know a few local and some state surveyors, and they all tell me that i just need to keep asking him about it. I've even asked the state licence board about it to no avail.

There is few surveying jobs in the area, most are 70+ miles away. I would stay a party chief, but when my boss goes(retires), so does my job :-/ so thats why i would like to get my LLS

if he is too busy, then I say just submit your application. You dont need his permission.

Explain to him your goals. If he truly has to have your help, he will get on board. If he can do it himself, then expect to hunt another job.

Sounds like it's time to fish or cut bait.

At this point, don't bother having him look it over. Submit it, but you will need him, and a couple other LS's to put down as references.

Let him know that you sent it in, hand him the reference form, and keep on him till he sends it in.

If you don't think that he'll do even that much, then there's a big problem with this relationship, and you'll need to find your third LS reference somewhere else. And maybe think about moving on sometime.

> if he is too busy, then I say just submit your application. You dont need his permission.

Need him to sign my work history and experience part for my application

>
> Need him to sign my work history and experience part for my application

If he's too busy to do that, that's a load of crap.

> At this point, don't bother having him look it over. Submit it, but you will need him, and a couple other LS's to put down as references.
>
> Let him know that you sent it in, hand him the reference form, and keep on him till he sends it in.
>
> If you don't think that he'll do even that much, then there's a big problem with this relationship, and you'll need to find your third LS reference somewhere else. And maybe think about moving on sometime.

I've asked some other surveyors, and they would help me out, but the whole part about having "direct work experience" they can't help with and they don't enough work for me to go work for them

I don't know your age or your bosses age but it sounds like its a good time to talk about ownership transition with him.

But, the first step is to get him to sign your history and submit the application. You are going to have to confront him about his reluctance and get him to explain the problem before you can fix it. It could be something as obvious as his fear of you skedaddling once your licensed and now having competition.

Investigate the transition subject and discuss that potential with him!

Dtp

Fill out all of the paperwork for him, then put it under his nose for signatures. Be tactful and respectful, yet aggressive.

Good luck!

If your boss (the LS/LLS) won't sign your experience forms just simply because he doesn't want to lose a qualified party chief, I say that you have a complete TOOL for a boss. I don't think I've ever heard of a PC being discouraged from applying simply because the LS in charge didn't feel like it. Usually, in my area, the LS's have to hound the PC's to put their applications in because we know that the population of the profession is dwindling so fast.

I'd seriously consider having a sit-down with the LS and ask him what's up. Maybe he thinks you'll demand a huge raise if you get licensed, when it's really your personal long term position in life that you are looking out for.

Even though it's difficult, you need to get a better understanding of why this situation is in the place that it is.

Good luck to you.

Carl

Surely someone here can help you out

Your situation stinks because of a greedy boss who is convinced that you will disappear completely or demand a huge wage increase once you are licensed. It is also probable that he may give you a terrible reference although it is not true. Perhaps someone else on here has been through a similar situation and can offer some insight on how to handle this.

> If your boss (the LS/LLS) won't sign your experience forms just simply because he doesn't want to lose a qualified party chief, I say that you have a complete TOOL for a boss. I don't think I've ever heard of a PC being discouraged from applying simply because the LS in charge didn't feel like it. Usually, in my area, the LS's have to hound the PC's to put their applications in because we know that the population of the profession is dwindling so fast.
>
> I'd seriously consider having a sit-down with the LS and ask him what's up. Maybe he thinks you'll demand a huge raise if you get licensed, when it's really your personal long term position in life that you are looking out for.
>
> Even though it's difficult, you need to get a better understanding of why this situation is in the place that it is.
>
> Good luck to you.
>
>
> Carl

Yes he is a TOOL!!! but unfortunately he a good paying tool that, though i haven't seen a raise in 6 years:pissed:, keeps the roof over my family's head.

Thanks for the support, guess it's time to sink or swim:pinch:

About 30yrs ago there was one of my three references that had already held out for years when I was filling out papers and applying for the state exam.

He was from another era and from people that felt he did not have employees, they were his people and they did what he said when he said. This was his town and most of the town's merchants felt the same way. Another reason why the young moved on and why the place was decaying under progress.

I had been managing another survey office a couple of towns away for several years and he was still holding out and without his signature, I would not make it to the test.

Finally one day I went to his office and laid the form out in front of him and respectfully as possible informed him that he was going to sign the form or we were headed for a session that would toss office into a shambles.

He saw I was serious and decided we needed to sit and talk this out.

His problem was that he did not want any competition to his business from me or anyone else.

I let him know that he had taught me more about surveying than anyone and it was well appreciated and he understood that he was too tight and was not going to make improvements in his business that were needed to be able to pay me enough to work there anymore.

We talked it out and I had to let him know that this was my lively hood and that if he was going to continue to hold me back, I was gonna show him my appreciation by tossing him and his office out in the street. Basically, you are costing me and I am gonna make it cost you.

He understood that better than anything because he was a bully and was at a point in life that he was not able to back up his bully ways anymore.

It all may have sounded very rough, in fact it was very civil meeting with no loud words, only very heartfelt and sincere words. He saw from the look in my eye and my stance I was not leaving without what I wanted, fully aware that anymore of his reluctance to sign could have lead to a disaster for both of us.

Whatever you do, keep your cool and show you are serious about your profession.

good luck

> Need him to sign my work history and experience part for my application

Maybe approach him with something along the lines of: "please sign this now; what happens to me if you are hit by a bus tomorrow; I have no record of my work experience"

Former Boss Not Acknowledging Work History ?

By not acknowledging your work history the former boss is being unethical.

Were I in that situation I would contact my Board and explain the situation. I would ask that the Board treat him as a hostile witness, and that the Board Attorney contact him by certified mail with a copy of my work history and that he respond Yes or no to the fact that I worked for him for that time period. That sets the tone for any disparaging remarks he may add. The Board should be satisfied with a Yes answer. If he says No, file a false statement complaint with the Board and submit your W-2s. Failure to respond to the Board in a timely manner is a violation in and of itself.

I had one former boss I did not care to talk to. I used a municipal professional who had reviewed a good number of my projects to verify that part of my work history. In fact I submitted 6 not 5 references because my work history occurred over a long period of time and much more than 5 employers. Some Board members commented on the length of my work history but none commented on the 6 references. Not all refernces must be supervisors and the specific wording may not require that any be supervisors, only that they are familiar with your work history. I used one professional who was a co-worker at two different employers, because I considerd that he was more familiar with my work history than the bosses. The non supervisory professional method could also be used if a former boss is deceased or in Federal Prison.

Paul in PA

> I've been working in the surveying industry for 10 years. I started as a rodman and have worked my way up to SIT.

How long an SIT? When did you Pass the exam?
How much experience etc is required to sit for your SIT and then your LLS as this varies widely state to state?

> I work for a small company, the surveyor(owner), me, and another worker(who has been surveying for 12+ years). Me and the other worker do 90% of the work (research, field work, drafting, ect.)

How much of your daily work is decision making IE responsible charge decisions about boundaries, control, monuments etc. Work that your boss is ultimately overseeing.

>I've been trying to get my boss to look over my application for becoming a LLS for the past 3 years and he has no interest what so ever in helping me.

No interest in helping you become an LLS or no interest in helping you with your application? Have you talked about the desire to become an LLS and what is his response?

>I can't leave a work for another surveyor because there is not many in the area to work for.

Can't really help you there. I continually tell many of the local surveying students that there are plenty of jobs out there but you may have to be willing to travel and or move around awhile to get to where you want to be.

>I would love to become a LLS and take over the business when he retires.

Again, does he know this and what is his response? Does he want to take it to the grave? How much longer does he think he wants to work? Discuss a buyout plan, a percentage of revenue or something to get him to plan the numbers into the equation of his retirement plan. How much money does your presence at the firm bring to the bottom line? What is your value that you can show you bring to the firm and can prove to him that this value will only increase with you becoming a LLS and or owner.

Ultimately does he feel you are ready to make the decisions? I have known many young survey techs (including myself) who were hot and ready to jump into the fire for a PLS before they really understood they simply were not ready. Im not saying you are in this situation but I've seen it time and time again. Does your boss participate in a local survey society as well? Does he have other LLS colleagues that may help you drop a bug in his ear he needs to be properly mentoring you? Good luck. Unless he's a complete SOB, only you will be able to convince him to help you along. IF not find anyway you can to cut and run.