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Architects say the darnedest things....

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james-fleming
(@james-fleming)
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The original plans show the first floor elevation as 19.50' but on your survey it varies by as much as an inch between doors. Is it possible that you made some mistake because, you know, the plans show the first floor as level throughout the building.

1. The building is over 40 yeas old and built on fill.
2. There might have been some variance across the building as it was constructed, because @38.8873694,-77.0198938,3a,90y,348.65h,86.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRKsEKFIvZ7rPHCdlPpdpfQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1'">it's kind of big

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 8:08 am
tommy-young
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How can someone so dumb design buildings?

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 8:10 am
holy-cow
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Tell him it's due to the curvature of the Earth coming into play on long buildings.;););)

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 8:35 am
Mark Mayer
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James Fleming, post: 422910, member: 136 wrote: ....Is it possible that you made some mistake....

NSPS Model Standards of Practice for Topographic Surveys state an allowable range for floor elevations as +/-0.05'. So unless there was some sort of specific accuracy specification in your project planning discussions....there is no way to tell if it's in your measurements or in the floor.

I just state the obvious here because I am frustrated when these things get asked after the fact. If it was important it should have been discussed beforehand.

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 8:54 am
nate-the-surveyor
(@nate-the-surveyor)
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Tell em it's metric. And, that a metric inch is about the thickness of a piece of cardboard. Somebody musta changed the carpet, or linoleum.....

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 9:02 am

james-fleming
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Nate The Surveyor, post: 422924, member: 291 wrote: Tell em it's metric. And, that a metric inch is about the thickness of a piece of cardboard. Somebody musta changed the carpet, or linoleum.....

Don't get me started....I've converted this job from metric to imperial once already 😡

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 9:05 am
DeletedUser
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That's what happens.
After all, it may be the largest and most expensive self-storage unit in the world for stuff that has no use nowadays.

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 9:15 am
sreeserinpa
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Holy Cow, post: 422917, member: 50 wrote: Tell him it's due to the curvature of the Earth coming into play on long buildings.;););)

I truly wish I would have thought of this one, excellent response!

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 9:54 am
james-fleming
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Robert Hill, post: 422930, member: 378 wrote: After all, it may be the largest and most expensive self-storage unit in the world for stuff that has no use nowadays.

You're right about expensive

https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/museums/air-and-space-museums-makeover-estimated-at-1-billion/2016/06/22/dfc35a30-3893-11e6-8f7c-d4c723a2becb_story.html?utm_term=.33180ae54d2e

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 10:02 am
brad-ott
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Nate The Surveyor, post: 422924, member: 291 wrote: metric inch

Good one.

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 10:15 am

Jim in AZ
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Tommy Young, post: 422911, member: 703 wrote: How can someone so dumb design buildings?

They're not completely dumb - after all, their fee is a percentage of the construction cost and they are often the construction manager...

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 11:09 am
dave-karoly
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Mark Mayer, post: 422922, member: 424 wrote: NSPS Model Standards of Practice for Topographic Surveys state an allowable range for floor elevations as +/-0.05'. So unless there was some sort of specific accuracy specification in your project planning discussions....there is no way to tell if it's in your measurements or in the floor.

I just state the obvious here because I am frustrated when these things get asked after the fact. If it was important it should have been discussed beforehand.

Exactly.

Engineers do the same d____d thing.

Get asked to topo entire huge complex.

Deliver topo.

"Did you shoot the elevation of every single door threshold?"

What? You didn't tell me you needed the elevation of every single door threshold (there are a lot of them).

But it's my fault because I didn't read minds.

That was one of the last private projects I did 8 years ago. Don't miss phone conversations with cranky Engineers.

I feel like I should refer them to Oddball, "Negative waves, why don't you knock off them negative waves, why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?"

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 11:25 am
paden-cash
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Dave Karoly, post: 422950, member: 94 wrote: ..."Did you shoot the elevation of every single door threshold?"..

I performed a survey once for a warehouse interior and exterior expansion project. The bay doors and finished floor were dock height and the specifications actually had a diagram of the location(s) within the bay door areas to determine the FF. We actually cut x's in those locations: 1' inside the interior building line at the center and within 1' of the edge of each of the 16' bay doors. What could go wrong?

After construction began it was found that the last 20' of the floor as it approached each bay door had 1" or so of fall. I'm assuming it was for weather drainage, but who knows. It was not visible to the eye.

We had also provided FF elevations at the base of each steel column inside the warehouse. This elevation difference was noticeable if you looked at our survey data. Apparently someone in design did not check things out. The design criteria was a flat floor needed for those high-rise fork lifts. A change order had to be initiated at the expense of the A/E firm. I bet it cost them dearly. We were lucky the "survey specifications" were so detailed. We had given them exactly what they wanted.

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:23 pm
Michael Platt
(@michael-platt)
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James Fleming, post: 422910, member: 136 wrote: The original plans show the first floor elevation as 19.50' but on your survey it varies by as much as an inch between doors. Is it possible that you made some mistake because, you know, the plans show the first floor as level throughout the building.

1. The building is over 40 yeas old and built on fill.
2. There might have been some variance across the building as it was constructed, because @38.8873694,-77.0198938,3a,90y,348.65h,86.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRKsEKFIvZ7rPHCdlPpdpfQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1'">it's kind of big

3. Last time I

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:37 pm
Michael Platt
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Michael Platt, post: 422965, member: 10797 wrote: 3. Last time I

I wont be using a self leveling level again. Next time I'll do it myself..

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:39 pm

flyin-solo
(@flyin-solo)
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couple years ago did an as-built of a 4-floor subterranean parking garage that had flooding/ponding issues. 5' x 5' grid, per their request. they insisted on it, paid for it, even after i pointed out that, upon first walking it for a scope, that their single 3" french drain that spanned the +/-12% driveway was woefully insufficient to capture the entirety of sheet flow.

shot it like i was doing brain surgery, gave them contours at a tenth, which made those slabs look like quad maps of colorado. they were mad- wanted 1/4-inch contours. i told them to 1. refer to the terms in their notes per our walk-through, as well as the signed proposal, 2. to consider the ability of ANY concrete guy to get those kind of results and, 3. to reconsider that it was all moot in light of the french drain issue.

don't know what ever happened there- it was a brand new, 10-story private dorm. the flooding issue probably took a back seat to the daily shenanigans of a bunch of 20-year olds who can swing a private dorm...

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:41 pm
Michael Platt
(@michael-platt)
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I'll never trust a self leveling level again.Next time I'll level it myself!!

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:42 pm
flyin-solo
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also, ask the architect to give you their CAD file, and you'll guarantee you can find that inch in there and make it all work...

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:46 pm
Jp7191
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One of my most memorable learning experiences was as-building the interior of a brand new concrete tilt up warehouse for a second floor addition. They wanted to know precise location of interior face of walls and precise steel column locations, 1/8" tolerances they stated! I was a rookie back then and when doing layout for new construction I was always paranoid to keep my layout points very tight for fear of the building not fitting together correctly in the end. After getting a base line established for as-building, I had my eyes widely opened. I found the perimeter concrete walls out of square and not straight for +- an inch, coumns not at plan location +-an inch, columns not plumb as much as an inch and half in 20', finished floor varied 3/4"..... My point is they the concrete,steel, and carpenters trades can all ask for 1/8" layout but they I learned that they cannot build it that close, at least in the case of concrete this tilt up building. Jp

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:55 pm
flyin-solo
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Jp7191, post: 422978, member: 1617 wrote: One of my most memorable learning experiences was as-building the interior of a brand new concrete tilt up warehouse for a second floor addition. They wanted to know precise location of interior face of walls and precise steel column locations, 1/8" tolerances they stated! I was a rookie back then and when doing layout for new construction I was always paranoid to keep my layout points very tight for fear of the building not fitting together correctly in the end. After getting a base line established for as-building, I had my eyes widely opened. I found the perimeter concrete walls out of square and not straight for +- an inch, coumns not at plan location +-an inch, columns not plumb as much as an inch and half in 20', finished floor varied 3/4"..... My point is they the concrete,steel, and carpenters trades can all ask for 1/8" layout but they I learned that they cannot build it that close, at least in the case of concrete this tilt up building. Jp

i learned that same lesson as-builting bridge bents on a couple of new highways about 20 years ago. get it as tight as possible up front, cuz it's not gonna be that way when it's done.

 
Posted : April 11, 2017 12:59 pm

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