I'm interested in how other professionals treat these camps on their ALTA surveys. The last few I've performed have had large camps in the woods with refuse lying all around. I noted it on the survey as a dumping ground with a homeless camp under the trees and was questioned by the attorneys (Why did you show it? Who are these people? Do they have a right to be there? What kind of trash was in the area?). I feel since we are a snapshot of existing conditions, and the garbage constitutes a dumping ground, and I don't know what rights the squatters have to the parcel, it should be noted on the survey. Thoughts?
I agree. Anything that may affect property rights should be shown, always.
It could be that they may have earned some kind of.prescriptive rights to be there or for their trash.
from a thread i started a few months back, here's how somebody locally treated it:
I hope that we are not getting to the point where a prescriptive trash right can enure via homeless camp, but, it is an existing condition
show and explain what you see. be very clear. I am not very PC these days, invent your own wording 😉
it can be damned hard to get squatters off, and the future prospective buyer Must know that (and the Insurance Company wants to Not cover that cost)
Howard Surveyor, post: 443007, member: 8835 wrote: questioned by the attorneys:
Howard Surveyor, post: 443007, member: 8835 wrote: Why did you show it?
Because it was there, DUH!
Howard Surveyor, post: 443007, member: 8835 wrote: Who are these people?
I don't know, I tried to talk to them but they didn't want to talk to me; you might want to go ask them yourself.
Howard Surveyor, post: 443007, member: 8835 wrote: Do they have a right to be there?
Again; you might want to go ask them yourself.
Howard Surveyor, post: 443007, member: 8835 wrote: What kind of trash was in the area?
Hypodermic needles, feces, you know; the basic homeless camp type of trash...
Attorneys are good at passing blame; you are only there to gather facts. Be thorough and don't let them push you around...
I was reading an article about a homeless man that had a camp in the woods for years and the state called his dump a toxic area due to amount of old batteries found.
I would discretely take a couple of photographs and insert them in color on my survey or as an appendix thereto. Definitely make note of it. Perhaps we need a universal symbol. I once encountered a man living on a property I was surveying and made note of it. Turns out that he was the owner, a vet living on the edge, and my client. I learned not to make judgement about the status of people that I find thereabout.
Peter Ehlert, post: 443017, member: 60 wrote: ...it can be damned hard to get squatters off...
an unfortunate brush fire can do miracles...and squatters won't usually be back for months either, due to the smell...
I understand ODOT notices them with a "Right to enter" notice per Oregon Revised Statute 672. Don't know if it true or not. Jp
I was involved in a survey in the early 1970s in Marion County where a man had occupied and made improvements on 30 acres of land near where Black Cypress ran into Big Cypress and had been there over 30yrs.
That man gained title to the land thru Law of Limitations in Texas.
For that reason, I believe finding people residing upon any property to be of importance and should be shown on the survey.
That is the surveyor's responsibility to show what is there and it is everyone else's job (owner, title company, lawyer, mortgage company and buyer) to find out why, how and what they are doing and what they claim.
paden cash, post: 443054, member: 20 wrote: an unfortunate brush fire can do miracles...and squatters won't usually be back for months either, due to the smell...
I guess you have never been poor
Right before starting construction on my house I found a guy "camping" on the property under a fallen tree. I confronted him, he said his parents threw him out. I talked to the police, they said they knew who it was, they took care of it and never saw him again.
I would hope that the libs would not somehow think it OK to give homeless people rights on land that isn't theirs.
A somewhat related question...what do you do if you find Marijuana growing (in a state where it is not yet legal)? I found some in Florida near a housing project in the woods, I was real careful because I was worried about booby traps. A few days later they were gone, they may have seen us going in and out of the woods and decided to move it.
Knowing local law and how it is enforced is Paramount... No matter what you think is the "best way".
Pot can be a big deal. Feds do Civil Asset Forfeiture and I hear that they can take land without public notice or due process...
John Hamilton, post: 443068, member: 640 wrote: A somewhat related question...what do you do if you find Marijuana growing (in a state where it is not yet legal)?
same as i'd do if i found anything else short of, like, a nuclear warhead while out surveying: mind my own business. unless i find something that poses an imminent threat to me or anyone else, i leave it alone. i'm a surveyor, not a cop.
Peter Ehlert, post: 443063, member: 60 wrote: I guess you have never been poor
Unfortunately the majority of the people I see are not just poor.
Peter Ehlert, post: 443072, member: 60 wrote: Knowing local law and how it is enforced is Paramount... No matter what you think is the "best way".
Pot can be a big deal. Feds do Civil Asset Forfeiture and I hear that they can take land without public notice or due process...
That has not been the case in the US for many years.
Peter Ehlert, post: 443063, member: 60 wrote: I guess you have never been poor
I have been. Poor as church mice they say. It gave me great incentive to alter my situation. While it made me keenly aware of what was mine; it didn't make me feel entitled to possess that which was not. 😉
Howard Surveyor, post: 443007, member: 8835 wrote: Do they have a right to be there?
Assuming the apparent squatters are not the legal owners, whatever rights they might have is a legal question. A surveyor should be familiar with the legal principles that affect boundary location and aware of the conditions which may affect the quality of title. Just how those conditions actually affect title, if at all, is a matter for the attorney to consider.
Whether or not "the homeless" as a demographic group has attained protected class status and/or the ability to make a successful claim of an unwritten dedication for their socio-economic segment of the public probably is directly proportional to the site's proximity to the San Francisco Peninsula. (I'm not sure whether this sentence should be in sarcasm font or not)
It's not within the surveyor's discretion to omit mention or depiction of existing conditions in order to save the attorney from the work of legal research and the potential liability that goes with providing a legal opinion.